Ford 3600 running problems..........

Discuss your favorite brand and how to fix it.
User avatar
greybeard
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 16174
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:51 pm
Location: Cleveland Tx

Re: Ford 3600 running problems..........

Postby greybeard » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:54 pm

245 synchro non cab. Currently not operational tho I was able to resuscitate the 3 cyl perkins after the flood..
0 x
"For evil to flourish, all that is required is for good men to do nothing" Burke

It ain't easy being a used cow salesman.

Covet Not!

User avatar
Nesikep
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 13037
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:37 pm
Location: Lillooet, BC, Canada

Re: Ford 3600 running problems..........

Postby Nesikep » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:34 pm

greybeard wrote:245 synchro non cab. Currently not operational tho I was able to resuscitate the 3 cyl perkins after the flood..

there's a Marshall, Leyland, BMC, Nuffield facebook group if you need parts or help
0 x
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
-Christopher Hitchens

User avatar
greybeard
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 16174
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:51 pm
Location: Cleveland Tx

Re: Ford 3600 running problems..........

Postby greybeard » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:50 pm

Nesikep wrote:
greybeard wrote:245 synchro non cab. Currently not operational tho I was able to resuscitate the 3 cyl perkins after the flood..

there's a Marshall, Leyland, BMC, Nuffield facebook group if you need parts or help

Yep, I am a member on one of the older Leyland/Nufield groups.
Got an email not long ago that one of them was shutting down and the website owner was urging everyone to save any text or pictures/links they needed. I may, or may not one day fix it. It was certainly a very good tractor.
1 x
"For evil to flourish, all that is required is for good men to do nothing" Burke

It ain't easy being a used cow salesman.

Covet Not!

User avatar
jltrent
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1917
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:04 pm
Location: Western tip of VA

Re: Ford 3600 running problems..........

Postby jltrent » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:55 am

I will keep all this information down and when I get the time to work on I want the little tractor fixed as it is my favorite. I hate to put a AM pump on it if I can avoid it. Several Diesel shops not to far and may tinker with it myself, but the last one I tinkered with I seen pretty quick you need tools and doing this everyday to have the skills on these pumps. Thanks as when I get it ruunning right I will post the fix. I will start at the tank and work my way back, but the white smoke is probably unburnt fuel or injectors not spraying correctly which is what I was not hoping for.
0 x

User avatar
True Grit Farms
GURU
GURU
Posts: 6565
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: Middle Georgia

Re: Ford 3600 running problems..........

Postby True Grit Farms » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:13 am

White smoke is oil, black smoke is fuel. White smoke is death smoke. Does the engine have much blow by?
0 x
If we'd of know this we'd of picked our own cotton.

User avatar
greybeard
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 16174
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:51 pm
Location: Cleveland Tx

Re: Ford 3600 running problems..........

Postby greybeard » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:55 am

True Grit Farms wrote:White smoke is oil, black smoke is fuel. White smoke is death smoke. Does the engine have much blow by?


Sort of...
White smoke can be unburned fuel entering the exhaust but generally, white smoke comes from coolant entering the combustion chamber. This usually only happens during start up, as the combustion pressure in a running engine is higher than coolant system pressure tho coolant can still enter the combustion chamber during the intake stroke.
Burning lube oil results in a bluish smoke and black smoke is incorrect fuel air mixture---too little air or too much fuel, bad valve settings, bad timing of the inj pump or bad cam timing.

I assume Mr. Trent has already loosened the injector line nuts at the injector one at a time and watched to see if the smoke disappears. This tells you if the problem is in a single cylinder (or injector) or if he has a bigger problem that affects all 3 cylinders.

One common problem with those engines is the injector may test good as far as pressure and leakdown, but the check valve will leak, allowing combustion gasses to enter the fuel system and of course, when the pump sends fuel pressure to that injector, the gasses in the line simply compresses instead of fuel going thru the injector. Run it long enough like that, the gasses get back to the pump and all 3 injector lines end up with the gasses in them and the engine dies.
0 x
"For evil to flourish, all that is required is for good men to do nothing" Burke

It ain't easy being a used cow salesman.

Covet Not!

User avatar
jltrent
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1917
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:04 pm
Location: Western tip of VA

Re: Ford 3600 running problems..........

Postby jltrent » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:01 am

True Grit Farms wrote:White smoke is oil, black smoke is fuel. White smoke is death smoke. Does the engine have much blow by?


I have run it probably 30 hours last week and the oil level stays at the full marker (did not increase or decrease)and have never had to add since new. Also checked the radiator a couple times and it is bout and inch from the top and seems to stay there.

Here it is idling and gets worse when you give it more fuel. It maybe more bluish....Seems to run good for a while even a whole day then as it starts smoking more running starts to go south. The little tractor burns very little fuel, but I believe it uses a little more now. Always ran good but I have noticed the last few years it has gotten harder to start and smoking more. I took the injectors out probably 10 years ago and had them checked as it was missing and they said one wasn't spraying good, but this time seems different. No miss just lots of smoke.


Image
Last edited by jltrent on Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
0 x

hurleyjd
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3509
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:52 am
Location: Yantis, Texas

Re: Ford 3600 running problems..........

Postby hurleyjd » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:15 am

jltrent wrote:I will keep all this information down and when I get the time to work on I want the little tractor fixed as it is my favorite. I hate to put a AM pump on it if I can avoid it. Several Diesel shops not to far and may tinker with it myself, but the last one I tinkered with I seen pretty quick you need tools and doing this everyday to have the skills on these pumps. Thanks as when I get it ruunning right I will post the fix. I will start at the tank and work my way back, but the white smoke is probably unburnt fuel or injectors not spraying correctly which is what I was not hoping for.


I bought a 4610 several years ago for $900. Dead at the time. Got it home and found that the gasket on the intake manifold had failed and water from the engine coolant ruined #1 cylinder. Engine removed and sleeved and a complete overhaul. I installed one of the pumps you refereed to and it has worked out very well. Also had the injectors redone. Very little smoke and plenty of power. After all of the work to make it a solid tractor came to about $5500. Most shops wanted $600 to $800 to repair pump. That is why I installed a AM pump for $375.00 but they are more costly now. Also bought a set of injectors last year for a tractor and they were new. The mechanic tested them before installing and two out of the three were good and one was bad.
0 x

User avatar
jltrent
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1917
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:04 pm
Location: Western tip of VA

Re: Ford 3600 running problems..........

Postby jltrent » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:21 am

greybeard wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:White smoke is oil, black smoke is fuel. White smoke is death smoke. Does the engine have much blow by?


Sort of...
White smoke can be unburned fuel entering the exhaust but generally, white smoke comes from coolant entering the combustion chamber. This usually only happens during start up, as the combustion pressure in a running engine is higher than coolant system pressure tho coolant can still enter the combustion chamber during the intake stroke.
Burning lube oil results in a bluish smoke and black smoke is incorrect fuel air mixture---too little air or too much fuel, bad valve settings, bad timing of the inj pump or bad cam timing.

I assume Mr. Trent has already loosened the injector line nuts at the injector one at a time and watched to see if the smoke disappears. This tells you if the problem is in a single cylinder (or injector) or if he has a bigger problem that affects all 3 cylinders.

One common problem with those engines is the injector may test good as far as pressure and leakdown, but the check valve will leak, allowing combustion gasses to enter the fuel system and of course, when the pump sends fuel pressure to that injector, the gasses in the line simply compresses instead of fuel going thru the injector. Run it long enough like that, the gasses get back to the pump and all 3 injector lines end up with the gasses in them and the engine dies.


Good info GB, I may try some of those to make sure it is not an injector.
0 x

User avatar
jltrent
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1917
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:04 pm
Location: Western tip of VA

Re: Ford 3600 running problems..........

Postby jltrent » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:25 am

hurleyjd wrote:
jltrent wrote:I will keep all this information down and when I get the time to work on I want the little tractor fixed as it is my favorite. I hate to put a AM pump on it if I can avoid it. Several Diesel shops not to far and may tinker with it myself, but the last one I tinkered with I seen pretty quick you need tools and doing this everyday to have the skills on these pumps. Thanks as when I get it ruunning right I will post the fix. I will start at the tank and work my way back, but the white smoke is probably unburnt fuel or injectors not spraying correctly which is what I was not hoping for.


I bought a 4610 several years ago for $900. Dead at the time. Got it home and found that the gasket on the intake manifold had failed and water from the engine coolant ruined #1 cylinder. Engine removed and sleeved and a complete overhaul. I installed one of the pumps you refereed to and it has worked out very well. Also had the injectors redone. Very little smoke and plenty of power. After all of the work to make it a solid tractor came to about $5500. Most shops wanted $600 to $800 to repair pump. That is why I installed a AM pump for $375.00 but they are more costly now. Also bought a set of injectors last year for a tractor and they were new. The mechanic tested them before installing and two out of the three were good and one was bad.


Good to hear on the AM pump as my neighbor has 11 tractors COL and he swears by them (just put one on a MF285 he said) Before I get ripped off at a disel shop I may try one. I noticed the AM injectors and they are less than what a shop will test each of yours for. I know they have to eat as dad always said you live and then let live. I don't believe they see it that way.
0 x

hurleyjd
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3509
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:52 am
Location: Yantis, Texas

Re: Ford 3600 running problems..........

Postby hurleyjd » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:52 am

What shape is the air cleaner in. Also white smoke can be from water getting into the combustion chamber. Oil and diesel will create a grayish smoke.
0 x

User avatar
Nesikep
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 13037
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:37 pm
Location: Lillooet, BC, Canada

Re: Ford 3600 running problems..........

Postby Nesikep » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:31 am

about the only thing that can go wrong in a DPA pump is the pump head and vane pump.. you may be able to get those through Delphi (new owner of CAV) at a reasonable price and still have OEM parts.. Install is easy, tuning isn't terribly hard either
0 x
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
-Christopher Hitchens

hurleyjd
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3509
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:52 am
Location: Yantis, Texas

Re: Ford 3600 running problems..........

Postby hurleyjd » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:32 pm

0 x

User avatar
greybeard
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 16174
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:51 pm
Location: Cleveland Tx

Re: Ford 3600 running problems..........

Postby greybeard » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:50 pm

hurleyjd wrote:https://www.agriculture.com/machinery/tractors/reading-smoke-signals_198-ar15040


Here are other possible causes of excessive white smoke:

*Either poor-quality fuel or inco-rect fuel grade.
*Air in the fuel system because of loose fittings.
*Faulty intake manifold air tem-perature sensor signal (particularly if the engine has been idling a long time).
*Malfunctioning atmospheric pressure sensor.
*Faulty coolant temperature sensor.

I think almost all of those can be ignored except maybe the 2nd one and likely as not, he would have noticed fuel leaking from a loose connection while the tractor was shut down and parked unless the tank on a cab model is differently located than mine. The entire fuel system on my 3600 is below the tank bottom's level.
0 x
"For evil to flourish, all that is required is for good men to do nothing" Burke

It ain't easy being a used cow salesman.

Covet Not!

User avatar
jltrent
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1917
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:04 pm
Location: Western tip of VA

Re: Ford 3600 running problems..........

Postby jltrent » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:14 pm

The tractor is still in sick bay, but have an injector pump in hand. It is too hot today to work on and don't need it as of right now, so in the next few days will get it on. I got it via Ebay from Acme Diesel, Knoxville, TN (2 hour drive for me), total rebuild, tested, calibrated, and I emailed the guy and he said if any problem bring it back (1 year warranty), no core required for $425 to my door, no taxes, free shipping. Exact same model as mine and around hundred bucks less than AM. Hope this does the trick.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CAV-FUEL-INJEC ... 2749.l2649

Image
Last edited by jltrent on Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
0 x


Return to “Trucks, Tractors and Machinery”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests