Is Beef a Heavily Subsidized Product

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HDRider
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Re: Is Beef a Heavily Subsidized Product

Postby HDRider » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:23 pm

And a tax liability when the land is sold CB.
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Re: Is Beef a Heavily Subsidized Product

Postby True Grit Farms » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:45 pm

I'm sinister I guess, but this is the reason NCBA is against COOL. This is the only way to keep the beef price low to the small producer is to be able to buy imported beef cheap. We've already proven we'll keep producing feeder calves for little to no profit, because we enjoy the lifestyle. But if the government and big business would get out of the way and let us market our products directly to the public we'd all do a lot better.
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Re: Is Beef a Heavily Subsidized Product

Postby ddd75 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:12 pm

how much is a 600 lb calf supposed to be worth 'to make a profit? 1,500...2,000...3,000... ??

Right now you get 1.50.. or 900.00

where would you need it to be to 'make money'?
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Re: Is Beef a Heavily Subsidized Product

Postby callmefence » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:16 pm

Bright Raven wrote:Hd

I don't see it as a subsidy. It is simply a matter of producers willing to operate at a loss. It is not the public's fault and they owe us nothing if we choose to operate at a loss. Until the market functions on the principle that a profit must be realized for production to continue, then the public is going to benefit from lower beef prices.


I think this is spot on. People are willing to run cattle at a loss so they can be a cowboy.
When you really get down to it and be honest with yourself. There's no other logical reason.
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HDRider
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Re: Is Beef a Heavily Subsidized Product

Postby HDRider » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:22 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:I'm sinister I guess, but this is the reason NCBA is against COOL. This is the only way to keep the beef price low to the small producer is to be able to buy imported beef cheap. We've already proven we'll keep producing feeder calves for little to no profit, because we enjoy the lifestyle. But if the government and big business would get out of the way and let us market our products directly to the public we'd all do a lot better.

TG - That is the underlying reason I posed this question. We compete against a lower cost structure of imported beef, and they only way we stay "in business" is by giving our product away.
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Caustic Burno
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Re: Is Beef a Heavily Subsidized Product

Postby Caustic Burno » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:33 pm

ddd75 wrote:how much is a 600 lb calf supposed to be worth 'to make a profit? 1,500...2,000...3,000... ??

Right now you get 1.50.. or 900.00

where would you need it to be to 'make money'?


My cost on a cow is roughly 1.50 a day
that is 550 dollars a year to keep her standing in the pasture.
These will vary widely depending on the debt the cow is having to service.
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Re: Is Beef a Heavily Subsidized Product

Postby RanchMan90 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:23 pm

Caustic Burno wrote:
ddd75 wrote:how much is a 600 lb calf supposed to be worth 'to make a profit? 1,500...2,000...3,000... ??

Right now you get 1.50.. or 900.00

where would you need it to be to 'make money'?


My cost on a cow is roughly 1.50 a day
that is 550 dollars a year to keep her standing in the pasture.
These will vary widely depending on the debt the cow is having to service.

Looks like a fair margin between income and expenses there without debt load?
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Re: Is Beef a Heavily Subsidized Product

Postby Caustic Burno » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:36 pm

Those cows are not servicing a debt.
My new tractor is an 06 replaced a 67model the other tractor is a 77 model.
It would be hard today to break even on the average herd that had a debt load.
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Re: Is Beef a Heavily Subsidized Product

Postby True Grit Farms » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:08 pm

ddd75 wrote:how much is a 600 lb calf supposed to be worth 'to make a profit? 1,500...2,000...3,000... ??

Right now you get 1.50.. or 900.00

where would you need it to be to 'make money'?


There's a big difference between making money and making a living off cows. $1.50 for a 6 weight is good enough for me. You can buy the best 6 weight steer for $1.35 to $1.40 here.
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Re: Is Beef a Heavily Subsidized Product

Postby RanchMan90 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:08 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
ddd75 wrote:how much is a 600 lb calf supposed to be worth 'to make a profit? 1,500...2,000...3,000... ??

Right now you get 1.50.. or 900.00

where would you need it to be to 'make money'?


There's a big difference between making money and making a living off cows. $1.50 for a 6 weight is good enough for me. You can buy the best 6 weight steer for $1.35 to $1.40 here.
Volume is the key. And location right?
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Re: Is Beef a Heavily Subsidized Product

Postby jedstivers » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:15 am

It's all a numbers and volume thing.
Most producers don't run anywhere near enough numbers to make a profit at it.
It takes a lot of cattle to turn a profit and you have to be dealing in truckload amounts of almost everything.
Very few producers in the eastern half of the country do that.
I ran numbers till I found the number of calves to make a profit then figured out where I needed to be.
thats also one reason for calves, I don't want that many cows.
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Re: Is Beef a Heavily Subsidized Product

Postby Bigfoot » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:20 am

The 600 pound weaned calf drawing in $900 would be awesome. A 475 pound calf for $700, may be more in line with what the majority of producers see. Have a 5% death loss on calves, keep back 15-20% of your heifers, and your setting on the break even point. Take $30 out of everything for selling, and your knocking on the door.

3 good grass years in a row, has me actually running a few more head, than my place can support. The same fixed cost, should probably be running 70 cows, not 85.

I only post these kinds of things, so that young people know what they are getting in to. Like by hot hard work, at low or no pay, is what the small cowman has to look forward to.

Not sure why any of us do it, including myself. I "think" I managed to save a short bred heifer from anaplasmosis, and I had a 3 month heifer manaGe to drown, in a recent 7.5" rain. You got stuff like that around every corner, plus breakdowns. If it was easy, there'd be cattle on every hillside. I'll always do it. To stop wold be to give up. Perhaps that's why.
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Re: Is Beef a Heavily Subsidized Product

Postby Stocker Steve » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:37 am

Beef is very disorganized compared to integrated white meat. So sell/buy traders make a profit. :cowboy:
Cow/calf is land and forage intensive. So many renters and some low cost forage areas make a profit. Typical make a living operations here rent about half their acres, and pasture land here appraises for about $1450 per acre. Actual price will be higher if it is suited for deer or horses. :(
Stockering makes a lot some years and can lose a lot other years. So good risk managers, with legume pasture, and a good buying market, make a profit.
Ran some back grounding budgets yesterday. Profit per head was very modest w/o a marketing benefit. Not willing to run huge numbers so I have to work more on the math...

I don't see where making "a profit" is difficult AS LONG AS you keep the investment down. I think making a good living is the challenge. Riding around some scenic acres on horses will not get ur done. Public records show the average producer clears less than $100/cow/year even though we have lower cost land. So get some standardized production data for your area and do the math. Either you need big numbers, or you need more value added.
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Re: Is Beef a Heavily Subsidized Product

Postby Farm Fence Solutions » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:00 pm

Beef is heavily subsidized on our place by a fence builder.
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Re: Is Beef a Heavily Subsidized Product

Postby Ky cowboy » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:38 am

Only way I can make it pencil out is by renting. I own 1 1/2 acres where my house is. I have used my own money to get started but that was expected. I don't buy expensive equipment. We are starting to upgrade hay equipment, but we sell a lot of hay. Try to sell enough to make the payments and feed our cows thru winter. We have family land but I get nothing from it. My grandad let's me use his equipment in exchange I do all his work, he cant even start most of his tractors and has never baled the first bale of hay. I do it all. I just can't make it pencil out to buy ground and make cow/calf pay for it.
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