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Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:09 am
by True Grit Farms
I have some heifers that have been exposed to two or more bulls. I'd like to know if it's possible to tell who the sire of the fetus is through a blood test?

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:13 am
by Bright Raven
True Grit Farms wrote:I have some heifers that have been exposed to two or more bulls. I'd like to know if it's possible to tell who the sire of the fetus is through a blood test?

Yes. You can run a parentage blood test. I assume you mean postpartum. Sample the calf. The lab will need a data base that includes the DNA fingerprints of the bulls.

PS: I assume your title question is more accurately explained your text question.

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:25 am
by Supa Dexta
Pretty sure he's asking to test the mothers.. Nope.

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:30 am
by Bright Raven
Supa Dexta wrote:Pretty sure he's asking to test the mothers.. Nope.


I thought that might be his question... was unsure. No. You cannot run a DNA sample on the mother and identify the sire of the feutus she carries.

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:27 am
by True Grit Farms
Bright Raven wrote:
Supa Dexta wrote:Pretty sure he's asking to test the mothers.. Nope.


I thought that might be his question... was unsure. No. You cannot run a DNA sample on the mother and identify the sire of the feutus she carries.

That's exactly what I was wanting to know. That's why I used fetus and not calf. Sure would be nice if you could.

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:35 am
by Bright Raven
True Grit Farms wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
Supa Dexta wrote:Pretty sure he's asking to test the mothers.. Nope.


I thought that might be his question... was unsure. No. You cannot run a DNA sample on the mother and identify the sire of the feutus she carries.

That's exactly what I was wanting to know. That's why I used fetus and not calf. Sure would be nice if you could.


Why do you need to know before the calf born?

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:08 am
by True Grit Farms
Bright Raven wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
I thought that might be his question... was unsure. No. You cannot run a DNA sample on the mother and identify the sire of the feutus she carries.

That's exactly what I was wanting to know. That's why I used fetus and not calf. Sure would be nice if you could.


Why do you need to know before the calf born?

I feel the heifers would bring a few more dollars if I knew who the father was instead of guessing. I have sell all my heifers bred private treaty off the farm or at breeders sales.

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:00 pm
by greybeard
Short answer is no as has already been said.. but just for sheets and giggles.......
I think it 'may' be able to be done, perhaps only on a theoretic or deep research level, but not just anywhere and probably not cheaply or easily.
Cells do pass the placenta from fetus to mother and these cells can change the mother's genetic makeup..over time. Might even have to be done using certain brain cells from the mother, as research has shown that these cells are capable of crossing the blood/brain barrier. The cells that cross from fetus to mother thru the placenta are talked about here:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science- ... 180956493/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microchimerism

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:23 pm
by wbvs58
GB those links you gave reference humans, it may be a lot different in cattle as the placenta is not as close to the maternal lining as in humans and primates. It is a long time since I have had to think about this but my recollection is that in primates the maternal blood virtually bathes the placenta allowing cells to cross over and also antibodies and hence those autoimmune type conditions where maternal antibodies can develop against the foetal rbc. In ruminants and horses the antibodies can't cross over and don't affect until after birth and the maternal ab in the colostrum are consumed. I am a bit hazy on this but a sharp research mind like Ron's might throw some light.

Ken

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:30 pm
by Bright Raven
wbvs58 wrote:GB those links you gave reference humans, it may be a lot different in cattle as the placenta is not as close to the maternal lining as in humans and primates. It is a long time since I have had to think about this but my recollection is that in primates the maternal blood virtually bathes the placenta allowing cells to cross over and also antibodies and hence those autoimmune type conditions where maternal antibodies can develop against the foetal rbc. In ruminants and horses the antibodies can't cross over and don't affect until after birth and the maternal ab in the colostrum are consumed. I am a bit hazy on this but a sharp research mind like Ron's might throw some light.

Ken


I remember about the same as you. It even crossed my mind when Grit ask. I would just wrap it up by saying there is no conventional method.

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:55 pm
by greybeard
wbvs58 wrote:GB those links you gave reference humans, it may be a lot different in cattle as the placenta is not as close to the maternal lining as in humans and primates. It is a long time since I have had to think about this but my recollection is that in primates the maternal blood virtually bathes the placenta allowing cells to cross over and also antibodies and hence those autoimmune type conditions where maternal antibodies can develop against the foetal rbc. In ruminants and horses the antibodies can't cross over and don't affect until after birth and the maternal ab in the colostrum are consumed. I am a bit hazy on this but a sharp research mind like Ron's might throw some light.

Ken

Shows just how much I am able to comprehend but it seems I had read a few months (years?) ago that research had shown it also happened in mice. Anyway, the ? was already answered.

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:07 pm
by wbvs58
greybeard wrote:
wbvs58 wrote:GB those links you gave reference humans, it may be a lot different in cattle as the placenta is not as close to the maternal lining as in humans and primates. It is a long time since I have had to think about this but my recollection is that in primates the maternal blood virtually bathes the placenta allowing cells to cross over and also antibodies and hence those autoimmune type conditions where maternal antibodies can develop against the foetal rbc. In ruminants and horses the antibodies can't cross over and don't affect until after birth and the maternal ab in the colostrum are consumed. I am a bit hazy on this but a sharp research mind like Ron's might throw some light.

Ken

Shows just how much I am able to comprehend but it seems I had read a few months (years?) ago that research had shown it also happened in mice. Anyway, the ? was already answered.


You are well read GB, a lot more than I am these days. It is interesting to have a bit of side information.

Ken

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:12 pm
by Nesikep
I think you MIGHT be able to but it would be really difficult.. probably could get a blood sample from the fetus if you were determined enough and had the equipment

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:59 pm
by Bright Raven
Nesikep wrote:I think you MIGHT be able to but it would be really difficult.. probably could get a blood sample from the fetus if you were determined enough and had the equipment


No question about that, Nesikep. You could even take a tissue sample of the fetus. But the expense and risk are not worth the few extra dollars that True Grit would gain. He would also need to submit samples on the two bulls if their DNA profiles are not on record.

Re: Can DNA pass from fetus to mom?

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:16 pm
by Nesikep
Yes, there is certainly a difference between possible and practical in this case