Can anyone tell me about these bulls?

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PGNsalers
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Can anyone tell me about these bulls?

Postby PGNsalers » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:30 am

I purchased some semen at a dispersal and had to take everything in the tank. What can you tell me about these bulls? Don't know if I should use them or throw them away. Thanks.

Take Charge, Heartbeat, Pistol Pete, Power Blitz, Payback, Final Destination, Power Play, Total Play, Rambo, Concorde, Caprice, Super Star, Shilo, Heartbeat, Heat Seeker, Playboy
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Taurus
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Re: Can anyone tell me about these bulls?

Postby Taurus » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:06 pm

It's important to see which bulls are TH and PHA carriers that you do not keep any replacements out of these bulls or at least mate these bulls to the clean cows to get a terminal calf. You have several bulls that are carriers of TH and PHA.
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Chi496
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Re: Can anyone tell me about these bulls?

Postby Chi496 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:33 am

Quickly scanning your list the only THC bull I see is Heatseeker. Unlike Taururs. I look at cattle with genetic defects as something to manage not automatically discount. I have several carrier cows in my herd. That being said my herd bull is both Th/Pha free. I also AI those tested carrier cows to bulls that are tested clean for the cows defect. Every heifer sold as a prospect or retained as a replacement in my operation that is a result of suspect genetic defect mating is tested. That's why I say defects are a management decision. You must decide if yo want to manage the issue before using sires with the potential of genetic defect. That goes for Th,Pha,AAM,NH,DM, and I know I'm leaving out a few of the Angus issues.
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Taurus
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Re: Can anyone tell me about these bulls?

Postby Taurus » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:29 am

IMO its unethical to continue produce the carrier animals that have lethal defects but to each their own. Chi496, you're missed several bulls that are carriers. I did checked them for the gene defects.
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Chi496
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Re: Can anyone tell me about these bulls?

Postby Chi496 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:08 am

Indicus,
Where do you get off calling someone or their management practices unethical ? What was your last high selling calf 1.25cwt? Let's just say mine was well above that. And I will use my grandfathers advice, don't argue with dumb people , they will only drag you to their level.
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3waycross
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Re: Can anyone tell me about these bulls?

Postby 3waycross » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:25 am

Chi496 wrote:Indicus,
Where do you get off calling someone or their management practices unethical ? What was your last high selling calf 1.25cwt? Let's just say mine was well above that. And I will use my grandfathers advice, don't argue with dumb people , they will only drag you to their level.



You're a quick learner :tiphat:
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Taurus
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Re: Can anyone tell me about these bulls?

Postby Taurus » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:28 am

Like I said it before.... to each their own. I hope the club calf association needs to do something with the bulls with TH and PHA defects before they run out of the clean bulls.
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Chi496
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Re: Can anyone tell me about these bulls?

Postby Chi496 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:39 am

3waycross wrote:
Chi496 wrote:Indicus,
Where do you get off calling someone or their management practices unethical ? What was your last high selling calf 1.25cwt? Let's just say mine was well above that. And I will use my grandfathers advice, don't argue with dumb people , they will only drag you to their level.



You're a quick learner :tiphat:



I try but when someone questions your integrity it's hard to let go.
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Indicus
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Re: Can anyone tell me about these bulls?

Postby Indicus » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:27 pm

Chi496 wrote:Indicus,
Where do you get off calling someone or their management practices unethical ? What was your last high selling calf 1.25cwt? Let's just say mine was well above that. And I will use my grandfathers advice, don't argue with dumb people , they will only drag you to their level.


First; I presume you mean "Taurus"?In that case :bday: to him!
Calves even obvious culls go for close to 2.0 cwt
And in my book managing the defects rather than culling everything is the opposite of the dreaded single trait selection. :2cents:
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Taurus
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Re: Can anyone tell me about these bulls?

Postby Taurus » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:15 pm

Indicus wrote:
Chi496 wrote:Indicus,
Where do you get off calling someone or their management practices unethical ? What was your last high selling calf 1.25cwt? Let's just say mine was well above that. And I will use my grandfathers advice, don't argue with dumb people , they will only drag you to their level.


First; I presume you mean "Taurus"?In that case :bday: to him!
Calves even obvious culls go for close to 2.0 cwt
And in my book managing the defects rather than culling everything is the opposite of the dreaded single trait selection. :2cents:
You can drop your act in here. I asked the moderators to track down your IP address a long time ago and they told me that you have a different username on here. I found it to be very sick for you to use a different username to bullying me for just giggles and laughs. You are not fooling anyone in here.
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Indicus
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Re: Can anyone tell me about these bulls?

Postby Indicus » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:32 pm

Bullying you? Read my less than ten posts here, where is the bullying?
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shadyhollownj
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Re: Can anyone tell me about these bulls?

Postby shadyhollownj » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:39 pm

I second Taurus. You should not be breeding animals that are carriers intentionally. My neighbor does it and it bothers the be nice outta me. Who cares if you say they are only for meat. When that calf leaves your farm you have no clue what really happens to it down the road. I dont really know what else is going on here but what does the price of the last calf you sold have to do with breeding defects?
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Chi496
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Re: Can anyone tell me about these bulls?

Postby Chi496 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:49 pm

I'm trying to keep this to just what it is. Why should/does another breeders choice bother you? My business is based upon breeding and marketing show animals. Yes I realize that I have a niche market just the same as many others on this board. My animals are geared toward their end use is the show ring, first then either the rail or to a program that knows what they are working with.i do not operate under the false pretense that I'm producing range mommas, not commercial bulls, but show stock. Those that are in this sector of our great industry understand my position, while some may choose to use only defect free genetics many others look at it as I do you manage around them. Some may think my stance on this subject is out of pure arrogance, if that's the case so be it.
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VCC
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Re: Can anyone tell me about these bulls?

Postby VCC » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:45 am

"carrier animals that have lethal defects" These animals do not have lethal defects, they just carry the gene that could produce an animal with that defect, if a carrier is bred to a carrier you have a 50% chance the breeding will produce an animal with the defect, 25% chance it is a carrier, and 25% it is clean. Since the bull calves get steered, there is little chance they will spread the gene, if he test his heifers and passes that information on to his clients and they breed accordingly they should be fine as well.
If you want a clean herd, that your choice, if he wants to manage his carriers and is diligent about the process he will be fine as well.
Problem is most the Club Calf bulls that throw the type are carriers, so until they start selecting for a different type at shows people will continue to breed cattle that carry the defective gene. There has been no proof that the steers that are winning carry the gene since there is no reason to test a steer, but the general consensus is that the steers that win are in fact carriers, at least of the TH gene. The bulls that are out of carriers that are clean and have the show calf look do not seem to pass that look on to their offspring. Anyone buying cattle with club calf genetics for breeding purpose should be aware of the defects and test the cattle of questionable mating, if it has not already been done.

This debate has been going on for years, and will continue I am sure, kind of like vegans and meat eaters, Liberals and Conservatives.
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Re: Can anyone tell me about these bulls?

Postby DLD » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:05 pm

PGNsalers wrote:I purchased some semen at a dispersal and had to take everything in the tank. What can you tell me about these bulls? Don't know if I should use them or throw them away. Thanks.

Take Charge, Heartbeat, Pistol Pete, Power Blitz, Payback, Final Destination, Power Play, Total Play, Rambo, Concorde, Caprice, Super Star, Shilo, Heartbeat, Heat Seeker, Playboy


PGN, a few of those bulls are worth more than your average $20 a unit. Heartbeat and Pistol Pete are clean higher % MA bulls and will make some really nice females for any kind of program. When you say Power Play that could be either Black Power Play (Chi) or PS Power Play (Angus)... The rest of those bulls that I'm familiar with you probably don't need to use without some research, but some of them definitely have some value - I wouldn't throw it out.

I don't have anything to do with the apparently old feud in this thread, but yes carrier genetics can be used both profitably and ethically. I would agree that producing affected calves isn't ethical, but if you don't breed two carriers of the same defect together, that will never happen.
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