Purebred - Crossbred - who cares as long as I win

Discuss the ins and outs of the showring.
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Son of Butch
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Purebred - Crossbred - who cares as long as I win

Postby Son of Butch » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:04 am

The 2004 Reserve All-American 3 year old Ayrshire purebred cow named Covey-Farms Forever JADE has now
[11 years later] been uncovered as a fake. She is not a daughter of the registered Ayrshire bull the owner registered her as
and Genome testing proved her sire to be a Holstein bull named Red-Marker making her a crossbred.
The U.S. Ayrshire Association is in the process of issuing replacement certificates to 400 animals with "Jade" in their pedigree.

Who cares as long as I win...show rings are filled with nothing but liars and cheating.
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Re: Purebred - Crossbred - who cares as long as I win

Postby Nesikep » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:39 am

Well that's going to suck for a bunch of people... I think the bigger the shows, the more crooks you'll find.. it's not going to be everyone.

But the Ayrshire Association.. they're issuing replacement certificates? for what? with what?
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Re: Purebred - Crossbred - who cares as long as I win

Postby ANAZAZI » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:22 pm

Should not have started dehorning...
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Re: Purebred - Crossbred - who cares as long as I win

Postby branguscowgirl » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:38 pm

show rings are filled with nothing but liars and cheating.

Maybe there are a lot when the "big bucks" are at stake. But some of us only get a ribbon and nice cattle for our efforts. Not really worth "lying and cheating" for. :mrgreen:
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Re: Purebred - Crossbred - who cares as long as I win

Postby Bigfoot » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:11 pm

How much DNA testing goes on in any breed, beef or dairy? Seems like there could be genetics in the wood pile of its not monitored.
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Re: Purebred - Crossbred - who cares as long as I win

Postby chippie » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:13 pm

That is interesting. I know of a cow that is supposed to be an Ayrshire. She looks more like a shorthorn.
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Re: Purebred - Crossbred - who cares as long as I win

Postby Son of Butch » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:57 pm

Nesikep wrote:But the Ayrshire Association.. they're issuing replacement certificates? for what? with what?

To correct the registration certificates originally issued to reflect the appropriate % Ayrshire in each generation of
offspring registered. Nearly 400 animals have been registered with the "Jade" cow in their pedigree, that are no longer 100%
With what? With the money members pay to the association.
After 11 years all the monies collected in offspring sales and from the show ring have already been long pocketed by the cheaters.

Crossbred cheating in purebred Texas Hereford shows has happened so often that "Fake Herefords" are referred to as a
"Texas Hereford."
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Re: Purebred - Crossbred - who cares as long as I win

Postby Muddy » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:03 pm

Happens in angus shows too.
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Re: Purebred - Crossbred - who cares as long as I win

Postby branguscowgirl » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:49 pm

Bigfoot wrote:How much DNA testing goes on in any breed, beef or dairy? Seems like there could be genetics in the wood pile of its not monitored.

In the Brangus Assoc. to use semen AI and register calves, the bull has to have DNA testing on file. To flush embryos the cow and bull both have to have DNA testing on file. The bylaws say that a representative can have any animal tested, at anytime there may be a question.

I am assuming most breed associations are similar.
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Re: Purebred - Crossbred - who cares as long as I win

Postby shortybreeder » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:19 pm

branguscowgirl wrote:
Bigfoot wrote:How much DNA testing goes on in any breed, beef or dairy? Seems like there could be genetics in the wood pile of its not monitored.

In the Brangus Assoc. to use semen AI and register calves, the bull has to have DNA testing on file. To flush embryos the cow and bull both have to have DNA testing on file. The bylaws say that a representative can have any animal tested, at anytime there may be a question.

I am assuming most breed associations are similar.

ASA is the same way with A.I. sires and donor dams. Must be tested for TH, PHA, and now DS.
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Re: Purebred - Crossbred - who cares as long as I win

Postby Luca Brasi » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:03 am

Son of Butch wrote:The 2004 Reserve All-American 3 year old Ayrshire purebred cow named Covey-Farms Forever JADE has now
[11 years later] been uncovered as a fake. She is not a daughter of the registered Ayrshire bull the owner registered her as
and Genome testing proved her sire to be a Holstein bull named Red-Marker making her a crossbred.
The U.S. Ayrshire Association is in the process of issuing replacement certificates to 400 animals with "Jade" in their pedigree.

Who cares as long as I win...show rings are filled with nothing but liars and cheating.


Pretty strong words there. So I guess that you know them all? And there are no liars and cheats among those who don't show? I've never understood this inferiority complex among some people who don't show, which results in animosity, hatred and envy against those who do. Kind of like poor people who are resentful towards "rich pricks" simply because they happen to be successful. It's easy to claim that one's animals are as good or better than anyone else's, with no objective or unbiased means of comparison.

There's also a lack of sophistication among some people who don't show, regarding the the whole process, and a failure to understand what it is and what it is not. It's just easier to remain smug in their ignorance and continue to lash out against them high falutin' show people and animals, in an attempt to cover up the fear of knowing that their animals wouldn't compare to those of better breeding.

The difference between those who show and those who do not is that exhibitors don't care that you don't show. Why should you hold it against them if their interests lead them toward different activities with their animals which don't affect you in the least?

You conveniently left out the part where it has been determined to be an honest mistake on the part of the breeders. No one else has ever mixed up a straw before?
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Re: Purebred - Crossbred - who cares as long as I win

Postby highgrit » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:43 am

My reading skills lack the comprehensiveness to see where straws of semen were mixed up. The ABA is responsible for this mess and should be held accountable. Some of the 400 animals were sold because of forever jades bloodlines, and miss represented. Some folks reaped the benefits and should be held accountable. But I'm sure that they bought their way out.
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Re: Purebred - Crossbred - who cares as long as I win

Postby Luca Brasi » Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:15 am

highgrit wrote:My reading skills lack the comprehensiveness to see where straws of semen were mixed up. The ABA is responsible for this mess and should be held accountable. Some of the 400 animals were sold because of forever jades bloodlines, and miss represented. Some folks reaped the benefits and should be held accountable. But I'm sure that they bought their way out.

No one is claiming that a straw mix up is responsible for the error. It's just a simple question to highlight that anyone can make a mistake.

I get the domino effect and the consequences for so many people. I'd be interested in seeing proof of your claim of a payoff.
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Re: Purebred - Crossbred - who cares as long as I win

Postby highgrit » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:47 am

I have no dog in this fight. But the ABA says all the show earnings and production honors earned in the past will stand. Then the ABA goes on to say that no blame is assigned to the owners or breeders of this animal. So who's fault is it and who going to pay back all the money that was earned by fraud? If your so naive to believe that the ABA and the cows owners didn't know something was up, you are just kidding yourself or your one of the owners or a member of ABA. No blame to the owners, that's a farce to me.
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