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2yo that bites

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:40 pm
by BullBucker
Hi I just got a 2yo mini stud that bites, and trys to bite all the time. and it's hard to do anything with him cuz he'll bite you anywere. I'v only had him for about two weeks. he has never been worked with much. and I have never been around a horse that bites.

JP

Re: 2yo that bites

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:06 pm
by msscamp
BullBucker wrote:Hi I just got a 2yo mini stud that bites, and trys to bite all the time. and it's hard to do anything with him cuz he'll bite you anywere. I'v only had him for about two weeks. he has never been worked with much. and I have never been around a horse that bites.

JP


I would suggest you start establishing manners through ground work and every time he bites backhand him immediately. Stay alert when you do, however, as some horses will bite in retaliation of the backhand. If you're not used to working with studs or don't have a lot of experience with them, I would also suggest castrating this one. At 2 years old, he won't lose all of his stud behaviour, but it will settle him down quite a bit. Just my thoughts.

PS I forgot to add that you never, never want to slap him around the head open-handed as it has a good chance of making him head-shy - hence the backhand.

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:31 pm
by Gale Seddon
Are you using a "stud chain" when you lead him (lead shank with chain from the snap on his halter to the rest of the lead)? This should be threaded from one side of the halter, under his chin, and snapped to the other side of the halter. A sharp yank on that, accompanied by "NO", when he thinks about biting will help train him. Kind of like a "choke chain" on a dog (a quick release type of thing). You have to watch as you lead him so you can anticipate when he's going to try and bite. We use these on jacks (male donkeys)...they can't be taken in a show-ring without one. It's a shame, but it sounds like he received no training as a youngster before the testosterone kicked in. Good luck with him. Hard enough to deal with hormones at any age, but especially when they've learned no manners before this stage.

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:42 pm
by Gale Seddon
Sorry, I forgot to say that I agree with previous replies...that unless he's a superior breeding animal, there's no reason to keep an intact male...geldings make MUCH better pets!

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:47 pm
by msscamp
Gale Seddon wrote:Are you using a "stud chain" when you lead him (lead shank with chain from the snap on his halter to the rest of the lead)? This should be threaded from one side of the halter, under his chin, and snapped to the other side of the halter. A sharp yank on that, accompanied by "NO", when he thinks about biting will help train him.


While I agree with Gale about the stud chain, I would add a word of caution - if this particular stud has never had a stud chain used on him, is spoiled, or has learned he can intimidate his handler, you could get 'tapped' (as our local farrier puts it) on the head (or other parts of your body) by his front hooves.

Re: 2yo that bites

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:31 pm
by D.R. Cattle
msscamp wrote:
BullBucker wrote:Hi I just got a 2yo mini stud that bites, and trys to bite all the time. and it's hard to do anything with him cuz he'll bite you anywere. I'v only had him for about two weeks. he has never been worked with much. and I have never been around a horse that bites.

JP


I would suggest you start establishing manners through ground work and every time he bites backhand him immediately. Stay alert when you do, however, as some horses will bite in retaliation of the backhand. If you're not used to working with studs or don't have a lot of experience with them, I would also suggest castrating this one. At 2 years old, he won't lose all of his stud behaviour, but it will settle him down quite a bit. Just my thoughts.

PS I forgot to add that you never, never want to slap him around the head open-handed as it has a good chance of making him head-shy - hence the backhand.


Even better than a backhand is a knuckle sandwich. Light him up. Hate a dang biting or kicking horse. Beat the tar out of a kicker with 2x4 once. Problem resolved. They are very tough; you have to use alot more force than you would on say..another human being.

Re: 2yo that bites

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:35 pm
by Bez!
BullBucker wrote:Hi I just got a 2yo mini stud that bites, and trys to bite all the time. and it's hard to do anything with him cuz he'll bite you anywere. I'v only had him for about two weeks. he has never been worked with much. and I have never been around a horse that bites.

JP


JP

So it bites. What are YOU doing in return? Accepting this?

Who is the boss - you or the horse?

Cut it's nuts out unless it is stellar.

Punch it in the nose - friggin hard when it bites - or kick him in the belly - frigging hard - immediately.

Yeah, there are those who will disagree - but it worked for me more than once.

You are the boss - show it or become a member of the herd - and continue taking orders from your property.

Bez!

Re: 2yo that bites

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:20 pm
by msscamp
D.R. Cattle wrote:
msscamp wrote:
BullBucker wrote:Hi I just got a 2yo mini stud that bites, and trys to bite all the time. and it's hard to do anything with him cuz he'll bite you anywere. I'v only had him for about two weeks. he has never been worked with much. and I have never been around a horse that bites.

JP


I would suggest you start establishing manners through ground work and every time he bites backhand him immediately. Stay alert when you do, however, as some horses will bite in retaliation of the backhand. If you're not used to working with studs or don't have a lot of experience with them, I would also suggest castrating this one. At 2 years old, he won't lose all of his stud behaviour, but it will settle him down quite a bit. Just my thoughts.

PS I forgot to add that you never, never want to slap him around the head open-handed as it has a good chance of making him head-shy - hence the backhand.


Even better than a backhand is a knuckle sandwich. Light him up. Hate a dang biting or kicking horse. Beat the tar out of a kicker with 2x4 once. Problem resolved. They are very tough; you have to use alot more force than you would on say..another human being.


I'm not going to argue with you, D.R., nor am I going to argue with Bez!. The biting has got to stop and now!

Re: 2yo that bites

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:45 pm
by Bez!
D.R. Cattle wrote:
msscamp wrote:
BullBucker wrote:Hi I just got a 2yo mini stud that bites, and trys to bite all the time. and it's hard to do anything with him cuz he'll bite you anywere. I'v only had him for about two weeks. he has never been worked with much. and I have never been around a horse that bites.

JP


I would suggest you start establishing manners through ground work and every time he bites backhand him immediately. Stay alert when you do, however, as some horses will bite in retaliation of the backhand. If you're not used to working with studs or don't have a lot of experience with them, I would also suggest castrating this one. At 2 years old, he won't lose all of his stud behaviour, but it will settle him down quite a bit. Just my thoughts.

PS I forgot to add that you never, never want to slap him around the head open-handed as it has a good chance of making him head-shy - hence the backhand.


Even better than a backhand is a knuckle sandwich. Light him up. Hate a dang biting or kicking horse. Beat the tar out of a kicker with 2x4 once. Problem resolved. They are very tough; you have to use alot more force than you would on say..another human being.


D.R.

I see we were thinking along the same lines.

You are going to have one of those nice horsey people mad at you for suggesting you hurt Goldie the family pet. 8)

Tough to compare a double barrel punt from the back end of a horse (of any size) to a fist. Or a real bite - they can rip you apart when they are serious.

I am with you - one warning and then it is time to come to Jesus. But I figured this mini might be "really mini". They are usually easily tamed with a couple of good whacks. Otherwise this owner is simply another mare to this horse.

Funny how it usually only takes one trip to the back room for most horses to make them to stop.

Suspect it was bought as a breeder. Bad manners (aggression) often (not always) equals bad genetics. If I had been forced to teach every horse I have owned to not bite - I would have spent most of my life at it.

Bez!

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:26 am
by Old Dog/New Tricks
Studs are a dime a dozen 98% of the studs should be cut
saying that
If you want to try to save him

I'd put a "Feed Sack" on him and put
Rocks in it - - Watch for Broken teeth
Peaces of 2x4 5" long save teeth

Using a feed bag makes it hard for him to bit you
Rocks, Chain, Wood in that bag will teach him not to bite

Handle him normally and let him teach his self

As for hitting him - a piece of broom handle 2" longer than your hand is wide and rounded on both ends saves your Hands

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:42 am
by Alan
I agree with most all of what has been said, geld him. Caution on smackin him, a lot of mini's are mean as heck, I have seen a mini stud keep 2-two yr old QH studs from a group of mares. So be ready for a battle when you first smack him, and you have to win or it's over for the training for a while. I agree that you can't really hurt him by hitting him. Use the 3 second rule... when he bites you make him think he is going to die for three seconds and then stop. Be all over him with a whip, broom handle, an extension of yourself, but make him think or wish he is going to die for 3 seconds everytime he does it.

In time I would use a stud chain, but as far as now you guys probably have to go to war and again you must win at any cost (except if it ovious you are going to get hurt badly then shoot him). That's why I would have a broom handle or something to reach out and touch him...If he was doing it to me he would see stars and see his parts in a bucket. Oh you have to do this when he is on lead he can't run from you, you have to be in control of his life for the three seconds.

Good luck,
Alan

Alan

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:53 am
by Alan
I should also say that studs are a dime a dozen and most shouldn't have even been considered as a stallion prospect. I just had my 2 yr old Paint stud cut, he has a very nice breeding and a great prospect, but while he was not mean he was too studdy, we couldn't move forward with the training very fast and for him even at a couple days old he always pushed back when training. He did not bite, did not kick, but he did not have the temperment to be allowed to be a stallion... good studs are a dime a dozen.

Alan

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:16 am
by Howdyjabo
I believe in doing something aggressive big time with biters-- I'm not anywheres near a bleeding heart.

First CUT him- then if he still tries to bite........

I've never seen anyone whos first instinct wasn't to knock the #### out of them--- that does it right when told to and it just becomes a battle of wills for them.

Get you a nice hot cigar--- make sure the cigar is where he wants to bite and let him go for it...........
NOT he bites THEN you burn him--
you have to let him bite at the cigar and have it burn him right then and there. No anger no recognition that you had anything to do with it at all-just keep right on going with what you were doing and be ready to do it each and everytime..
PS-- don't do it in the barn :)

A nice sharp short nail wedged between your fingers works pretty good too when you are in the barn.

knew an old timer that used to be able to grab the tounge and pull it out-- if the horse bit down he bit himself. I just never was quick enough to get the hand back out in time .
It was done and over so fast that you could hardly see what happened. But boy did he get a good reaction out of the horse.

No battle of wills/ just plain and simple- biteing is unpleasant.
And I'm not playing that game.

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:49 am
by Alan
Howdyjabo wrote:I believe in doing something aggressive big time with biters-- I'm not anywheres near a bleeding heart.

First CUT him- then if he still tries to bite........

I've never seen anyone whos first instinct wasn't to knock the #### out of them--- that does it right when told to and it just becomes a battle of wills for them.

Get you a nice hot cigar--- make sure the cigar is where he wants to bite and let him go for it...........
NOT he bites THEN you burn him--
you have to let him bite at the cigar and have it burn him right then and there. No anger no recognition that you had anything to do with it at all-just keep right on going with what you were doing and be ready to do it each and everytime..
PS-- don't do it in the barn :)

A nice sharp short nail wedged between your fingers works pretty good too when you are in the barn.

knew an old timer that used to be able to grab the tounge and pull it out-- if the horse bit down he bit himself. I just never was quick enough to get the hand back out in time .
It was done and over so fast that you could hardly see what happened. But boy did he get a good reaction out of the horse.

No battle of wills/ just plain and simple- biteing is unpleasant.
And I'm not playing that game.


I'll debate this a bit, cigar and nail seems a little harsh. I wouldn't consider it a battle of wills as much as a battle for dominance. There can only be one alpha horse in a herd and since to be a handler or trainer you must be part of the herd you better establish dominance (sp). You get the horses (older, untrained horses) respect then you can work on trust and get through training with a lot less pain to you.

JMO
Alan

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:48 pm
by BullBucker
I was a little short on time the other day so here I go.

I got this horse to breed. and also knowing that I was going to have my hands full. I did not know he bit, but I would still got him. so I will keep him and as a stud.

he is head shy, has had no training. but he dose like a good rub.

all he wares is halter and lead rope. do to lack of training he drags the lead at all times. but being that he was never messed with much he is not spoiled. and he is not...I can't think of the word, but when it comes feeding time he has got to be the most calm horse out there. so thats at lest one good thing.

I have had no battle of wills with him. cigar?! nailes?! a little harsh?! and no my first instinct was not {and never has been} to knock the #### out of him. the only time I'm not calm is if I'm very very happy, or very very mad at someone-a human someone.
you don't take the lords name in vain, you don't cross my family, you don't kick my dog, and you don't chase my stock.

I'v been shoving him back. and I know I'v got to get his respect. I'm more then willing to take my whole life to get him to stop. but with in the week would make me happy too.

to D.R. Cattle-my GGrandpa had a stud that someone took a 2x4 too. lost his site in one eye, and from that day on only GGrandpa and my Grandma could even tuch him. the horse that used to wow every one was never the same.

I know that you all don't want anyone geting hurt.