Navicular Horse

Horse management, health, feeding and grooming.
Arthur
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Navicular Horse

Postby Arthur » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:33 am

How many have one and what do you do with them?
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Postby msscamp » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:03 pm

Since you state the horse has Navicular Disease, I'm assuming you've already been to the vet and that the horse is lame/unridable. Is this true Navicular Disease (if so, I would probably simply put the horse down), or is the Navicular bone rotating due to foundering? How far has it rotated? Have you talked to a good farrier, as well? What you do with them depends on the stage of disease, cause of disease, what (if any) options are available to offset the disease, whether you're willing/are able to pursue those options, and whether you're able to continue absorbing the cost of feeding the horse while it is 'recovering'. To the best of my knowledge - true Navicular Disease has no cure, so you are probably postponing the inevitable. If this is a case of founder, depending on how bad it was, there is a possibility of pulling the horse out of it - that would be up to your farrier and vet.
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Postby Arthur » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:29 am

NO founder.

The comments made are 1- Quarter Horse with small feet - 2 - if x-rays were seen prior to seeing the horse would not think much of it. 3- because being a Quarter Horse the diagnose is severe.

This is the second horse this year of ours to be diagnosed and by two different vets.

NO rotations - very small lesions.

My husband is a farrier and is doing exactly what the vets are telling him and they have told him that what they are seeing is correct.

We are giving bute and going with Adequan for now and winter is coming - resting them.

This spring both of them were fine and we did a couple nice trailrides with no lameness issues.

We had a hot dry summer with the pasture and ground hard and chopped up.

So - we will see.
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Postby Alan » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:47 am

Arthur wrote:My husband is a farrier and is doing exactly what the vets are telling him and they have told him that what they are seeing is correct.


You have a long, hard, expensive losing battle a head of you, but is is only your husbands and yours to choose to fight. Best you can do is prolong life and light riding for a while.

Is your husband a farrier by trade or on the weekends? Not trying to be rude. The reason I ask is that Vets are not farriers and they should not pretend they know how to be one. For a farrier to correctly treat a horse like yours takes plenty of skill and experience.

Just my 2 cents,
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Postby Arthur » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:04 am

Alan - Totally understand what you are saying.

I feel the battle is expensive and not a winning situation. I was just curious as to what other people have done.

Navicular seems to be so common now that someone must own one.

Hard to go out there every day and seeing the lameness or not seeing it that bad, saddling up only to unsaddle and be more aggravated than when you started.

You hope for more. Mentally the decision you have to make wears on you. Out of site out of mind I suppose. Two horses in one year is hard to swallow.
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Postby msscamp » Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:02 am

Arthur wrote:I feel the battle is expensive and not a winning situation. I was just curious as to what other people have done.

Navicular is never a winning situation, and I'm very sorry that you are faced with it.

Navicular seems to be so common now that someone must own one.

There are things you can look for to help prevent it, though. Way back when - I was a student in a Vet Tech program. As part of the Anatomy & Physiology course, it was explained that Navicular is much, much more common in horses with upright pasterns. If I remember correctly, the reason is that the upright pasterns prevent the flexibility that is required to absorb shock and support the body.

Hard to go out there every day and seeing the lameness or not seeing it that bad, saddling up only to unsaddle and be more aggravated than when you started.

Yes, that would be very difficult.

You hope for more. Mentally the decision you have to make wears on you. Out of site out of mind I suppose. Two horses in one year is hard to swallow.


Yes, you do - but hoping does not make it happen, perhaps a more proactive approach is in order? I've been where you are - more than once, and it's one of the hardest decisions I've ever made - but it needs to be made, and then followed through on. I truly hope I'm misunderstanding the "out of sight, out of mind", because that is not fair or right where the animal is concerned. I don't know the origin of these horses, but perhaps you might want to re-evaluate your buying/breeding standards?
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Postby Arthur » Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:38 pm

These horses do not have upright pasterns.

They do have very good bloodlines. Both were bought young. Because of the Quarter horse make up. Both were predisposed to Navicular.

They have done a lot for us and out of site, out of mind was not meant the way it sounds. They will always be in our minds.

For one - Adequan has seemed to work. We are going to try it on the other one for now and see what happens.
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Postby msscamp » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:37 pm

Arthur wrote:Because of the Quarter horse make up. Both were predisposed to Navicular.

Would you mind expanding on that statement, please? We've had Quarter Horses for 50 years, and have never had a Navicular horse. I'm a bit confused as to why Quarter Horse breed predisposes an animal to Navicular Disease.

They have done a lot for us and out of site, out of mind was not meant the way it sounds. They will always be in our minds.

Good deal, I'm so happy to hear that. :D I'm not familiar with Adequan, but I sure hope it works for you. :)

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Postby Chris H » Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:39 am

msscamp wrote:
Arthur wrote:Because of the Quarter horse make up. Both were predisposed to Navicular.

Would you mind expanding on that statement, please? We've had Quarter Horses for 50 years, and have never had a Navicular horse. I'm a bit confused as to why Quarter Horse breed predisposes an animal to Navicular Disease.

They have done a lot for us and out of site, out of mind was not meant the way it sounds. They will always be in our minds.

Good deal, I'm so happy to hear that. :D I'm not familiar with Adequan, but I sure hope it works for you. :)




Quarter horses are particularly prone to the disease but it is unknown whether this is due to some hereditary factor or is related to conformation. The more pressure that is applied to the navicular bone from the deep flexor tendon, the more likely the horse will suffer from navicular disease.

Quarter horses and thoroughbreds have proportionally small feet and high body weight, which may explain the tendency towards development of navicular disease in these breeds.
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Postby msscamp » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:37 pm

Chris H wrote:
msscamp wrote:
Arthur wrote:Because of the Quarter horse make up. Both were predisposed to Navicular.

Would you mind expanding on that statement, please? We've had Quarter Horses for 50 years, and have never had a Navicular horse. I'm a bit confused as to why Quarter Horse breed predisposes an animal to Navicular Disease.

They have done a lot for us and out of site, out of mind was not meant the way it sounds. They will always be in our minds.

Good deal, I'm so happy to hear that. :D I'm not familiar with Adequan, but I sure hope it works for you. :)




Quarter horses are particularly prone to the disease but it is unknown whether this is due to some hereditary factor or is related to conformation. The more pressure that is applied to the navicular bone from the deep flexor tendon, the more likely the horse will suffer from navicular disease.

Quarter horses and thoroughbreds have proportionally small feet and high body weight, which may explain the tendency towards development of navicular disease in these breeds.


Interesting. Thanks for the information! :) I wonder if ranch work plays a factor - since most ranch horses aren't shod, and shoes help to absorb concussion/impact.
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Postby Chris H » Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:53 am

Interesting. Thanks for the information! I wonder if ranch work plays a factor - since most ranch horses aren't shod, and shoes help to absorb concussion/impact.


Actually, I'd argue that shoes reduce the ability of the hoof to withstand concussion/impact. Shoes prevent excess wear of a hoof on hard surfaces, also give some extra traction on some surfaces. I'd guess most ranch horses grow and are developed on range/pasture and not shod until work requires it. I'd think those horses would develop a larger hoof than one growing up confined to smaller areas and on softer surfaces as stalls and small paddocks tend to be.
The conventional horseshoe is very unforgiving and does not allow the horses hoof to flex normally under normal use, contributing to lameness.
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Postby msscamp » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:00 pm

Chris H wrote:
Interesting. Thanks for the information! I wonder if ranch work plays a factor - since most ranch horses aren't shod, and shoes help to absorb concussion/impact.


Actually, I'd argue that shoes reduce the ability of the hoof to withstand concussion/impact.

It depends on the circumstances. Our current set of circumstances dictates that our horses are kept in corrals with concrete aprons extending apprx 5' from the feedbunks (former feedlot). For whatever reason - they tend to like to stand on those aprons, stomp flies, and they subsequently go lame. Shoes alleviate that problem, because they protect the hoof, and absorb concussion/impact. Now, depending on how severe it is in a particular area, drought causes the ground to become very hard - sort of like concrete - and shoes in that situation would go a long ways towards protecting a horses feet from concussion/impact.

Shoes prevent excess wear of a hoof on hard surfaces, also give some extra traction on some surfaces. I'd guess most ranch horses grow and are developed on range/pasture and not shod until work requires it.

Obviously, I don't know about your area - but in this area horses are rarely shod unless they are salebarn/feedlot/performance horses.

I'd think those horses would develop a larger hoof than one growing up confined to smaller areas and on softer surfaces as stalls and small paddocks tend to be.

Not necessarily. We've had a number of horses who were raised and ran on range/pasture, were never shod, and they had smaller hooves. I think hoof development is a genetic thing, more than an environmental thing.

The conventional horseshoe is very unforgiving and does not allow the horses hoof to flex normally under normal use, contributing to lameness.


I have never seen that happen - in fact, I've seen our farrier take a horse who was hesitant to move, apply proper shoes, and the horse moved like an entirely different horse. All I can say is not all farriers are equal - some are leaps and bounds above others.
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Postby Arthur » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:32 am

Interesting comments - I did not realize that posts were being made.

For those that do not know what Adequan is -
Adequan Equine Proven to relieve the symptoms of osteoarthritis, Adequan (POLYSULFATED GLYCOSAMINOGLYCAN) breaks the destructive disease cycle, inhibits cartilage damage and stimulates the cartilage repair process. Adequan Equine Extensive studies of Adequan have proven it readily passes through the synovial membrane and is taken up into cartilage by diffusion. Vet recommended 1 injection for 5 weeks and than a monthly injection.

This has definitely helped one of them and a change in shoeing and pads. We will see what comes with the other one she is just getting her weekly dose.

The vet that looked at our one Quarter Horse - commented - If she would have seen the x-rays and not the horse, she would not have thought anything of the Navicular area. But since she saw the horse first it is severely navicular. And the comment made earlier - All Quarter Horses are predisposed to Navicular disease.
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Postby Alan » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:33 pm

Arthur wrote:All Quarter Horses are predisposed to Navicular disease.


????? Just QH's? I think that is a very misleading statement. There are plenty of QH's that have enough hoof to support their weight. I do agree that in the halter circle the horses are bred to be more heavly muscled with smaller hooves, but as a breed in general, your vet made a dumb statement.

Is she a Equine Vet or a general practicioneer? Is she a newer Vet just out of school the in the last few years? If she was my Vet I would be having red flags popping up all ove the place.

Appy's are just as muscled as QH's, so are Paints, what about warm bloods? Draft horses?

Sorry for the rant, it just seemed like a dumb thing to say.

JMO,
Alan
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Postby Arthur » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:45 pm

Actually we had both our horses diagnosed by two different vets from different clinics. One said it in those exact words-yes, young and in a teaching hospital, one said it differently with same meaning. I also thought what a dumb thing to say. It was very disturbing and has stuck with me.

We are doing our own thing with these two and trying different things to see what is going to work for now.
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