Fenceman-FFS Fencing on property line along forested Govt land?

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Fenceman-FFS Fencing on property line along forested Govt land?

Postby greybeard » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:34 am

I sold an adjoining 17 acres a couple of years ago, and it needs the fence along the National Forest rebuilt. The new owner is not a fencer at all, and asked me to 'assist' on it. Translation--I'll end up doing most of it. He's a nice guy and I don't mind helping him, and we generally work things out in trade..
1. Run is 775' long, originally fenced in 1965 using 12ga low carbon 'red brand' type wire, but lots of it has been replaced with 14ga gaucho.
2. Original line posts were creosoted wooden posts--they're mostly gone, rotted below ground and only standing because the staples are holding them up.
3. It's to hold horses, not cattle. I intend to use barbless 12ga HT wire.
4. The fence is on the property line for the most part & I know where the survey stakes (iron rods) are on both ends of the fence.
Owner suggested moving over on to his property a couple 3 feet and building a new fence on clear land, but I told him he needs to maintain the original line with a good fence to keep from eventually losing that property line.
He then suggested just 'repairing' the old fence...I prefer to move the horses over onto my pasture temporarily, and tearing the whole mess out and beginning new. Lots of that fence is now grown into the trees, so it would be a pita to try to tighten up that old rusty wire--it will break everywhere it goes into a tree.

The problems:
In the years between original fencing, many of what were saplings in the 60s are now big trees, and the increased girth of those trees interferes with a straight fence. Most are Govt trees, a few are on his side of the line.
Additionally, even if I could otherwise cut those trees, 17' from the fenceline is a high voltage powerline.
I know Entergy would drop that line, but it would mean both he, I, and one other customer would be without electricity for some time and it could be days before they were able to get back out there and reconnect the line, so I don't see us cutting anything down other than short saplings and brush.


I realize it's going to end up looking like a snake laid out the path, but..
What's the easiest way to get the straightest possible line thru the mess?
Would you go behind the govt trees or on his side of those trees?
How long would treated 2x6s last against the trees to keep the new wire from being ingested by the trees?
With barbless HT and only horses, how far apart can the teeposts be spaced? (I'm not a horse person)
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Re: Fenceman-FFS Fencing on property line along forested Govt land?

Postby callmefence » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:00 pm

If you can't remove the big trees my suggestion would be to move the fence in the 2 feet to clear ground. Looks like we're talking about losing about .027 acres at 4000 per . 150.00$ of real estate. Hire a survey to come put a couple of legal pins on real property line and make them permanent. This should give you the right to maintain not just the fence but 2 feet on the other side.

12' on the tpost
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Re: Fenceman-FFS Fencing on property line along forested Govt land?

Postby greybeard » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:45 pm

Thanks for the honest reply FM.
Still has a couple of wooden survey markers along the run from the 2015 survey, as well as the steel rods at the ends, so I know where the real and legal line is. I told him he needed to drive something more permanent in where the way points are, but he hasn't yet..I don't want to push him on anything right now--his dad died just last Thursday and he has hands full dealing with that.

It's up to him, but personally, I don't give the govt use of an inch, much less 2 feet. In 5 years, that 2 ft will be grown up in more crap and they'll likely move their red blaze tree marks and yellow "National Forest Property behind this marker" signs over right next to the new fence next time their guys come thru to remark the boundary.
Plus, moving over 2 ft will mean I will have to set 2 new sets of big posts at each end to pull to and from.
I'll have to look too, to see what the agreement on that powerline ROW agreement is--they want a specified number of feet with no fence on it, either side of where their the poles and lines are.
I get along with the power company pretty good..the Forest Service...not so much. They don't come around often, but when they do, it's usually not good. Burrowrats!

12' spacing for 5 wire HT and horses? I would have thought it could be more. Oh well..he's got lots of $$.
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Re: Fenceman-FFS Fencing on property line along forested Govt land?

Postby callmefence » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:22 am

greybeard wrote:Thanks for the honest reply FM.
Still has a couple of wooden survey markers along the run from the 2015 survey, as well as the steel rods at the ends, so I know where the real and legal line is. I told him he needed to drive something more permanent in where the way points are, but he hasn't yet..I don't want to push him on anything right now--his dad died just last Thursday and he has hands full dealing with that.

It's up to him, but personally, I don't give the govt use of an inch, much less 2 feet. In 5 years, that 2 ft will be grown up in more crap and they'll likely move their red blaze tree marks and yellow "National Forest Property behind this marker" signs over right next to the new fence next time their guys come thru to remark the boundary.
Plus, moving over 2 ft will mean I will have to set 2 new sets of big posts at each end to pull to and from.
I'll have to look too, to see what the agreement on that powerline ROW agreement is--they want a specified number of feet with no fence on it, either side of where their the poles and lines are.
I get along with the power company pretty good..the Forest Service...not so much. They don't come around often, but when they do, it's usually not good. Burrowrats!

12' spacing for 5 wire HT and horses? I would have thought it could be more. Oh well..he's got lots of $$.


Sure it could be more. You could put em 24. I gave what I recommend, not what was cheapest. 30 more tpost equal 110 bucks . I think it's money well spent.
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Re: Fenceman-FFS Fencing on property line along forested Govt land?

Postby Farm Fence Solutions » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:42 am

Ditto on Fence's comments. We spent a few hours on a mountainside yesterday discussing a similar situation. The customer was to do all the clearing with a dozer, but they hadn't. Impossible to put the fence right on the line, and the old man said he wouldn't pay if it wasn't right on the line. We suggested moving in a couple feet, but he was having none of it. Needless to say, we are starting a different job this morning.
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Re: Fenceman-FFS Fencing on property line along forested Govt land?

Postby kenny thomas » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:48 am

Greybeard, call FS and tell them you need the boundary marked that you are going to build a road and don't wanna get on them. They should be there really quick so you will have no survey costs.
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Re: Fenceman-FFS Fencing on property line along forested Govt land?

Postby Ouachita » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:35 pm

I'm in the same boat now, about 7,000 feet of shared NFS boundary that has never been fenced. NFS monuments have been set for decades. They told me anything on them under 5" was fair game, and any tree on the line was fair game. So I had dozers and mulchers come clear it. On a couple lines, I moved on my side a foot or two because I didn't want to cut century old trees. I don't have power lines to consider.
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