never owned a cow

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Son of Butch
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Re: never owned a cow

Postby Son of Butch » Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:32 pm

ez14 wrote:
City Guy wrote:I'm a city guy who has never owned a cow, but in case someone leaves a calf on my doorstep I want to be prepared!

i guess its good to be prepared but is it common for people to leave calves on doorsteps in the city :?:
No, that's what makes his preparation so impressive!
if so is it common enough to make a city house a good investment for a farmer :idea:
No, but nice idea, way to think outside the box ez. :)
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Re: never owned a cow

Postby sim.-ang.king » Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:29 am

City Guy wrote:I live in Central Illinois and have two tomato plants on my deck. For twenty tears I owned and operated a nice Steak House so I know the business from that end. Every thing I know about cattle, sheep, chickens and horses came from the internet, books, magazines, state fairs and auctions. And just stopping in to visit farmers, if they would put up with me.

I've been around Central IL a little bit, what steak house did you own?
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Re: never owned a cow

Postby City Guy » Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:56 am

Stoney's
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Re: never owned a cow

Postby HDRider » Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:28 am

I was born a country boy. I became a city man, longing for the country for many years.

I am back in the country, with enough land to do something.

I too have studied the cow and its ways. What you say is true, debatable in some ways, and situational too.

I am working to get ready for my cow.

What I have learned is; reading is easy, doing is hard.

A lot of folks on CT are due respect for who they are, and what they do.
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Re: never owned a cow

Postby SJB » Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:45 pm

I've found me a signature line.

"Reading is easy, doing is hard."

Kinda reminds me of my garden attempt this year!
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Re: never owned a cow

Postby ez14 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:18 pm

Son of Butch wrote:
ez14 wrote:
City Guy wrote:I'm a city guy who has never owned a cow, but in case someone leaves a calf on my doorstep I want to be prepared!

i guess its good to be prepared but is it common for people to leave calves on doorsteps in the city :?:
No, that's what makes his preparation so impressive!
if so is it common enough to make a city house a good investment for a farmer :idea:
No, but nice idea, way to think outside the box ez. :)
:)
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Re: never owned a cow

Postby alisonb » Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:12 am

Think I may know who our 'City Guy' is :nod:
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Re: never owned a cow

Postby ANAZAZI » Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:13 pm

alisonb wrote:Think I may know who our 'City Guy' is :nod:

:nod:
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Re: never owned a cow

Postby sim.-ang.king » Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:44 pm

City Guy wrote:Stoney's

You might of wanted to do more learnin on restaurant management, and less on cattle.
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Re: never owned a cow

Postby City Guy » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:03 am

sim-ang.king; Too late!
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Re: never owned a cow

Postby pdfangus » Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:36 am

City Guy wrote:I'm a city guy who has never owned a cow, but in case someone leaves a calf on my doorstep I want to be prepared! I have been studying livestock in books and going to shows and sales for twenty years but I have no hands-on experience. These are the things I believe at this time (subject to change).

1. Cattle should stay outdoors and eat grass.
2. Profit should be measured per acre, not per cow.
then dope should be the crop not cattle
3. Mob grazing is the greatest thing since the invention of the printing press.
it is a tool like any other managment
4. Nearly all livestock problems can and should be handled genetically or at least biologically.
a lot easier said than done...livestock will find ways to create non biological problems
5. Purebreds are for breeding, crossbreds are for eating.
they are all for eating...the purebred breeder has a greater responsibility which too many ignore
6. Breed the best to the best, regardless of relationship.
inbreeding concentrates the genetics,,,both the good genetics and the bad genetics....it is the rare herd that cannot find a superior outcross especially with modern breeding tools....too many become barn blind and lazy.
7. Milk is a growth trait, not a maternal trait.
this one is entirely true...the object of increasing milk is more growth in the calves but too few consider the effect of environment on the cow. It is easier to breed more milk than you can feed.
8. An average bull from a good herd is a better bet than a good bull from an average herd.
This is the story of the big breeders...my herd is better than your herd. If you want the best... performance test and use the best from the test....again it is easy for animals to out perform the environment when striving for maximum production.
9. Many (most?) open cows are the fault of the bull, not the cow.
I call BS on this one...most open cows are animals not adapted to their environment.
10. Two years old is too young to have a calf.
hogwash...
11. Quality, not quantity, of milk is more important to growth and development of calves, especially replacements.
anything can be taken to extremes...you want both in levels suited to the cows environment...neither Jerseys nor holsteins make excellent beef cows.
12. One can raise a better bull than can be bought.
this totally depends on what you are raising it from...However in todays age of AI, great genetics are readily available and, used over time in, a closed herd; it is probable that over time bulls adapted to the environment raised from good performing cows also adapted to the environment may out perform bulls not from that environment...this has as much to do with the culling of the cowherd as it does with bull selection.

don't believe everything you read....as my dear old daddy use to say "He77 boy, if it was easy, any da_ned fool could do it.:

Feel free to change my mind. Thanks
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Re: never owned a cow

Postby City Guy » Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:45 pm

Anazazi; If you know the identity of City Guy do tell; I'm eager to know who I am. Someone rich and handsome, I bet!
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Re: never owned a cow

Postby City Guy » Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:25 pm

pdfangus; I'd like to heard what responsibilities you feel purebred breeders are ignoring.
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Re: never owned a cow

Postby pdfangus » Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:18 am

first and foremost is the obsession with breeding for numbers rather than breeding for function....I have seen races for the highest milk, races for the highest yearling weight, races for the best carcass epds.... even though carcass epds are seldom correlated to actual carcass data.mostly because it is too difficult to get carcass data which I think is by design....

not every cow that has a registration number is a great cow....some are below average cows...In any herd of animals there will be a top, a bottom and a middle...it has been my observation over the years that the best replacement females are the ones that come from cows in the middle of the herd....

Integrity...the problem today is that anyone who has the cash to buy registered animals then becomes a breeder and this is often times somone who knows nothing and listens to their paid advisors and then has a big dispersion some years down the road. some have great integrity....some don't...

I have seen breeders flush and sell embryo from a cow that has never weaned a calf. sometimes this is good and sometimes it is just because she had a great ancestor and people will pay for the lineage.

too many are barn blind...go to a sale and pay a great price for an animal and then by default it becomes the center of a breeding program based on price and pedigree...

horse traders have a bad name....but over my life I have seen just as many cattle traders as I have horse traders...

too many think they can feed in performance and looks and you can....but it most likely will not hold up in the real world.

The angus assoication a few years ago implemented a policy the you could not get performance information on calves until you registered them....I was in the habit of using my AHIR performance information as a factor in what calves were worthy of being registered....their advice was to register them all and get the perfromance information....this was simple avarice to get more income for the association without respect to performance..it also increases the income from AI certificate sales benefitting the breeders who were on the board..it most likely was designed to boost registration numbers....it probably had the effect of registering more inferior animals.....I simply went to doing my own calculations and registered the animals I deemed worthy....

In my area the guys who are doing the best in return from their cattle are the good cattlemen who are selling all natural grass fed beef direct to the consumer....their cattle either perform in their environment or they enter the food chain...this is pretty well removed from the purebred breeders in the area...

performance testing...standard advice from the angus association is if something does not fit then make more contemporary groups.....more contemporary groups means more animals in the top of their contemprary group.....as my daddy used to say...Figures don't lie....but liars figure....

i was once in a locally noted breeders office. this was a breeder who made his bones in the show ring....I guess he did not know that he had three registration papers on his desk for the same animal and that animal had three different birthdays....I don't know how things like that get done but I saw it myself.

In short ...the breeder who desires to produce and market seed stock should hold himself and his animals to the highest standards possible...not only in performance and marketing but also in integrity....buyers should be seeking out honest cattle and honest people and long lived programs that have stood the test of time...
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Re: never owned a cow

Postby Workinonit Farm » Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:02 pm

pdfangus, that was a well thought out and written response.
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