Organic versus Conventional

From the latest tomato tips to sweetcorn calamities, share your experiences in the garden.

Which cabbage would you prefer to use if you were making kraut?

Pic 1
1
11%
Pic 2
8
89%
 
Total votes: 9

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Jogeephus
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Organic versus Conventional

Postby Jogeephus » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:03 pm

Since I try to grow most all our food I thought I'd plant some extra spring cabbage to take advantage of the cool spring temps during the fermentation of the cabbage. For some reason I got it in my head to try and grow some cabbage organically with nothing but cow manure and no pesticides or fungicides.

Here is the selection of cabbages I can choose from for making this years kraut. For ten points can you guess which is organically grown and which is traditional?

Pic 1
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Pic 2
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Re: Organic versus Conventional

Postby Kingfisher » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:45 pm

Why are you allways messing with our heads? ;)
I don't know but that's quite a bit of Kraut! I think the burned up lil ones are that way from too much nitrogen from the manure. :)
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Re: Organic versus Conventional

Postby branguscowgirl » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:46 pm

1 is Organic. Even our organic seeds don't grow worth be nice side by side with the regular seeds and same fertilized ground.
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Re: Organic versus Conventional

Postby Jogeephus » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:29 pm

Kingfisher, making humor of my failure is better than my crying I think. I try to use minimal inputs on the garden but what I learned from this is I can't grow cabbage in the spring unless I spray fungicides and insecticides. The delicious looking little one's with all the unique character flaws are mine. Fertilized with copious amounts of cow shyt and not sprayed with any "poisons" :roll: . Unfortunately, we had a wet year and all sorts of critters jumped on them and lots of fungi as you see.(We are talking MAXIMUM BIODIVERSITY) Some even look like someone shot them with buckshot. Total waste of time. I'm still learning. Oddly, I can do a fair enough job growing "organic" cabbage in the fall with no significant problems. Here's my fall crop and its "organic". Well maybe not certified, inspected or taxed by the organic police but organic nonetheless.

Image

The other cabbage is grown by a fella I know and if I was an organic farmer I would surely hate him for doing such a good job and raising the bar on quality to such a high level and making me look so incompetent.

A lot of kraut? How bout this field. I suspect I raised more culls in my little patch than he did in his whole field. (I guess I beat him at something eh? :oops: )

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Re: Organic versus Conventional

Postby Kingfisher » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:40 pm

Dang Joe! You win! Who buys that from you?
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Re: Organic versus Conventional

Postby Jogeephus » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:54 pm

Kingfisher wrote:Dang Joe! You win! Who buys that from you?


Oh no, you misunderstood, the big field is a friend's not mine. I am just guessing I grew more culls in my little plot than he did in his whole field. He does a good job and all these are heading to Walmart or other chain grocers. None of mine would pass inspection so they would all be culled.

Here is something you may find funny .... or at least I did. I have another friend who truck farms like this and his daughter moved to Atlanta and was telling him how much money people were paying for produce at the farmer's market there and suggested he grow some "organic produce" and bring it up there to sell.

He did as his daughter suggested but when he loaded the refer truck he still had a lot of space and loaded the rest of the truck with produce which would be sold in Walmart and carried it all up to the farmers market where he and his daughter spent the weekend selling produce to what he called interesting people.

Funny thing is on his trip home still had most all the "organic" produce because people didn't like the blemishes but he sold all his "commercial" produce for a premium. He said he planned on doing this some more because this was a great way to spend time with his daughter but next time he wouldn't be bringing any organic stuff because it just won't sell as good as the pretty stuff.
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Re: Organic versus Conventional

Postby kickinbull » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:08 pm

I pick pic 1. Putting on cow poo is ok, but it's not the total picture. Just by not using any 'cides or fertilizer does not make it better for you. We have been indoctrinated so well of the ways of spending money to make a crop we(as a society) do not have the knowledge it takes to grow most anything. And it requires less thinking. "I'll got get a buggy and splatter some fertilizer on this afternoon." The microbes need to be fed and it can't be done properly by just trying to apply something to fix what ain't working.
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Re: Organic versus Conventional

Postby CottageFarm » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:44 pm

I feel for ya Jo!
When I had my market, I tried to grow strictly natural the 1st year. That bombed big time for a lot of the brassicas and cucurbits, especially my cucumbers. We had wicked infestations of cucumber beetles.
The second year, I went with organic approved methods...same result. The Brassicas were still worm eaten, and lost most of the cucurbits to cucumber beetles. Did you know that a cucumber beetle will give you the middle finger salute after a thorough dousing in neem oil and still continue sucking the life out of your cucumbers while doing it!!

The next, and all subsequent years, I broke out the seven dust as soon as the fist leaves were through the dirt.
I still had some natural and organic produce, just not all of it. When I explained to my customers that the only way I could provide any cucumbers and napa cabbage without those nasty little dusty bugs and worm holes was to dust with a pesticide and kill the little ba$tards, they were completely okay with it!
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Re: Organic versus Conventional

Postby Jogeephus » Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:02 pm

CF, it seems to be a two edged sword. People seem to want their cake and eat it too but like you say, most are just ignorant and with a little assurance and information they see the reality of it all.
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Re: Organic versus Conventional

Postby chippie » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:12 am

Organic does not mean pesticide or fertilizer free.
It's all in the quality of your soil when having a sustainable garden.
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Re: Organic versus Conventional

Postby TexasBred » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:48 pm

Jogeephus wrote:CF, it seems to be a two edged sword. People seem to want their cake and eat it too but like you say, most are just ignorant and with a little assurance and information they see the reality of it all.

Peel off a couple of the outside leaves to dress it up a bit and I figure you can command $12-14 a head for that organic cabbage if you want to sell it.
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Re: Organic versus Conventional

Postby Jogeephus » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:54 pm

TexasBred wrote:
Jogeephus wrote:CF, it seems to be a two edged sword. People seem to want their cake and eat it too but like you say, most are just ignorant and with a little assurance and information they see the reality of it all.

Peel off a couple of the outside leaves to dress it up a bit and I figure you can command $12-14 a head for that organic cabbage if you want to sell it.


$12-14?! Wouldn't want to undercut the organic market. :lol2: :lol2:
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Re: Organic versus Conventional

Postby Kingfisher » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:57 pm

How do they harvest that cabbage? What happens to the "trash" leaves? What do y'all call those big leaves on the perimeter ?
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Re: Organic versus Conventional

Postby Jogeephus » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:39 am

Kingfisher wrote:How do they harvest that cabbage? What happens to the "trash" leaves? What do y'all call those big leaves on the perimeter ?


You harvest by cutting the head off with a knife. What's left are the the bottom leaves still attached to the root. Don't know of any name for this other than bottom leaves. The cabbage are then piled in wagons and carried to the packing shed where they are cleaned and graded. Stuff not suitable for market gets dumped in the fields.
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Re: Organic versus Conventional

Postby Jogeephus » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:43 am

chippie wrote:Organic does not mean pesticide or fertilizer free.
It's all in the quality of your soil when having a sustainable garden.


I don't quite follow you on the pesticide fertilizer part. Has this been changed?

I think soil is the basis by which all farming is built so I don't think organic farming has a monopoly on soil health.
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