BioPryn?

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Bigfoot
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Re: BioPryn?

Postby Bigfoot » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:19 am

Lucky_P wrote:Gold Standard Labs closed their BG KY and TX labs. Saw where they were recommending sending samples to KSU - but they are headquartered in KS. Most state or university-affiliated veterinary diagnostic laboratories perform the bovine pregnancy tests and BVD-PI tests that GSL was offering, at similar pricing - though some may charge slightly more - USDA and accrediting bodies don't allow them to 'pool' samples, because of quality assurance issues.

So... check with your state/univ. veterinary diagnostic lab for pricing, turn-around time, requirements, etc.
I know the lab I work at offers price breaks at certain numbers of animals for the bovine pregnancy test - but for the life of me, I can't figure it out from the price list on the website; I have to call someone in the clerical/billing section to get that, whenever I field a call about it.


I can take them to you guys? If that's true, I had no idea.
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Re: BioPryn?

Postby Lucky_P » Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:17 am

Yes you can, but you'll need to work with/through your veterinarian. The veterinarian doesn't necessarily have to collect the samples (though they would for federally-overseen regulatory stuff, like brucellosis, Coggins testing, etc.).
From a legal standpoint, our lab works for/through the referring veterinarian. You just have to have a referring vet of record who will agree to serve in that capacity.

We've been doing bovine pregnancy and BVD-PI testing for years.
I often wondered if KCA was getting a kickback from GSL... as I always saw KCA officers recommending that producers send samples to those commercial labs rather than the two 'state-supported' labs... MSU-BVC in Hopkinsville, UK-VMDL in Lexington.
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Re: BioPryn?

Postby Bigfoot » Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:55 am

That's awesome. I feel silly not knowing that service was available.
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Re: BioPryn?

Postby bird dog » Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:57 pm

I also use a three cc syringe. Its just easier for me. I draw the blood and hand it to the wife. She injects it into the tube and writes the tag number on the tube. Your hands or gloves get pretty nasty after doing a few. I use CattleStats out of OKC. They will usually email you the results the day they receive the package and then mail you a permanent copy a week or so later. Costs $3.45 per tube for testing so about $5 per animal for supplies, shipping and testing if you do a dozen.

Watch the Utube videos on tail bleeding and try a few. Simple to do.
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Re: BioPryn?

Postby inyati13 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:17 pm

tom4018 wrote:
inyati13 wrote:
Bigfoot wrote:You get it back quick. It's emailed to you. 4 days tops. You can probably mail it to any of their labs, but seems like I sent mine to bowling green last spring. It's about time for me to do it again, the bull has been on the heifers since May 15th. You don't have to use their tubes. I think I bought a gross from Jeffers for nearly nothing.

Pulling the blood can be a little tricky with vacuum tube imho. Seems like I break the vacuum before I should. I just change needles and syring on each cow.


Bigfoot. Keep the needle under the skin before loading tube, then keep it in the flesh until you enter caudal vessel or it will pull air. I say that for Tom's benefit.

Tom, the key is locating the caudal vessel in the groove unter the tail. Count down about 3 caudal vertebra from the tail head. Find the groove on the underside of tail. Very distinct. Insert needle into the groove on the caudal vertebra. Do not go into the space between the vertebra. Go in on the body of the vertebra. I like the vacuum because when you hit the lumen of the vessel, the vial immediately fills.

You will not have any trouble. If you have trouble with the vacuum, Bigfoot's method is great too.

I get mine back in a week.


Which lab are you sending yours to? I had heard the one in Bowling Green closed.


DHI Cooperative
Columbus, OH.
I order supplies for 10 pregnancy tests. Seems like the last order was $34.00. They send a sheet with the order that says "prepaid". You need to copy that sheet and include with each shipment. I rarely am doing more than two at a time. Only additional cost is shipping. This is the most economical method of pregnancy testing. I had the vet come and do two heifers via ultrasound because I was leaving the farm to help Fire Sweep and needed to know whether to Lutalyse them and get them bred before I left. Both turned up pregnant.

PS: I agree with the post above on the YouTube. I like to do the technical stuff so maybe that is why I hope you try the vacuum needle. If you know exactly where you are going with it, it seems easy to me. I have beat that old mule to death so enough on that.
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Re: BioPryn?

Postby inyati13 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:31 pm

You guys that use the syringe, seems like it would be harder. When the vacuum needle enters the caudal vessel the vial fills in a second, literally. You don't have to poke, pull, poke, pull.

With a syringe you are not going to know when you are in the vessel unless you pull back on the plunger. Seems harder. Any comments? Ok, promise not to hit this mule again but just saw another post above of someone who prefers the 3 cc syringe.
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Re: BioPryn?

Postby Lucky_P » Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:38 pm

I'm just an old dinosaur, I guess.
Never, ever used one of the vacutainer needle holders... always tail-bled with a needle and syringe...been doing it that way for 35 years...usually with a 6 or 12 cc syringe, because I was usually going for more blood than I'd need, just to make sure there was plenty if I needed to request additional tests. 3cc syringe... even smaller and easier to manipulate.
Folks working at the diagnostic labs are good at their jobs, but you've gotta have enough sample for them to work with.

BF - call or PM me if you have more Qs.
Last edited by Lucky_P on Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BioPryn?

Postby tom4018 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:40 pm

Lucky_P wrote:I'm just an old dinosaur, I guess.
Never, ever used one of the vacutainer needle holders... always tail-bled with a needle and syringe...been doing it that way for 35 years...usually with a 6 or 12 cc syringe, because I was usually going for more blood than I'd need, just to make sure there was plenty if I needed to request additional tests. 3cc syringe... even smaller and easier to manipulate.
Folks working at the diagnostic labs are good at their jobs, but you've gotta have enough sample for them to work with.

What gauge needle are you using?
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Re: BioPryn?

Postby Lucky_P » Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:40 pm

18 ga x 1"
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Re: BioPryn?

Postby southernultrablack » Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:43 pm

We got our testing kit from jeffers, all expenses included with the purchase of the kit( excluding shipping to the lab). We used the vacuum tubes and as stated above it gets messy after a few. I insert the needle first to find the artery and then puncture the tube once I have blood coming out.
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Re: BioPryn?

Postby bird dog » Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:08 pm

inyati there's really not much difference. I have used both but just seem to like the syringe method. I buy a box of 100 syringes from Air-Tight products that have a 18ga x 1 1/2" needle already attached. Cost less than .25 each with freight. You really don't need a needle that long but thats the way they come. I pull the plunger back about 1/4"inch before I giver her a poke and you will see blood enter the syringe when you hit the vein. Pull it on back and it quickly fills. Air-Tight also sells the vacutainers.
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Re: BioPryn?

Postby inyati13 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:27 pm

bird dog wrote:inyati there's really not much difference. I have used both but just seem to like the syringe method. I buy a box of 100 syringes from Air-Tight products that have a 18ga x 1 1/2" needle already attached. Cost less than .25 each with freight. You really don't need a needle that long but thats the way they come. I pull the plunger back about 1/4"inch before I giver her a poke and you will see blood enter the syringe when you hit the vein. Pull it on back and it quickly fills. Air-Tight also sells the vacutainers.


Bird dog. Thanks. I hope this is not annoying because if there is a better mouse trap, I plan to employ it. Do you mean you pull the plunger back just after breaking the skin? Because if you pull it back before the poke, a vacuum is not created. Please explain. I might be missing a simple point.
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Re: BioPryn?

Postby bird dog » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:32 pm

I pull the plunger back just enough to break the seal and give some room for some blood to flow in before it pierces the skin. Usually 1/4 to 1/2 inch. Then I push it in where I think the vein is at. If I miss, I don't usually pull it completely out, just move it around to find the vein.
One of my problems when I started was pushing all the way through the vein. In a lot of animals it is barely under the skin so your needle is running parallel to the tail if you are holding the tail straight up. The little three ml syringes don't take much to pull back and I have learned to hold it with my thumb and first two fingers and pull back the syringe with the ring and pinky finger while the other hand holds the tail.

I really wouldn't think this way is better, it just allows a little more room for error when leaning how to do it. If you miss, push the plunger back to the starting point and try again.

One thing I have learned is that it easier to do with just a head gate and chute if you can stand on the edge of the chute to elevate yourself somewhat. It makes it much easier on the back to hold the tail with one hand and bend over the top rail to access the back of the cow. You also don't get $hyte on so much.
Another is that it is not 100% accurate. I had a nice young second calf cow that tested open but luckily I liked her enough to move her with the bull. She calved about 7 months later.

In one group I did last year, the technician said that one cow was a "weak" pregnancy. I didn't know what that was so I emailed him. He said in a lot of cases, its when Ia cow aborts a very young fetus shortly before you tested her. Sure enough he was right as it took about 10 months after that for her to calve. Its a good management tool that doesn't cost much.
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Re: BioPryn?

Postby Bigfoot » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:39 pm

It saves you more than it cost. How long you gotta feed/maintain an open female until she's cost ya $5?
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Re: BioPryn?

Postby inyati13 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:31 pm

bird dog wrote:I pull the plunger back just enough to break the seal and give some room for some blood to flow in before it pierces the skin. Usually 1/4 to 1/2 inch. Then I push it in where I think the vein is at. If I miss, I don't usually pull it completely out, just move it around to find the vein.
One of my problems when I started was pushing all the way through the vein. In a lot of animals it is barely under the skin so your needle is running parallel to the tail if you are holding the tail straight up. The little three ml syringes don't take much to pull back and I have learned to hold it with my thumb and first two fingers and pull back the syringe with the ring and pinky finger while the other hand holds the tail.

I really wouldn't think this way is better, it just allows a little more room for error when leaning how to do it. If you miss, push the plunger back to the starting point and try again.

One thing I have learned is that it easier to do with just a head gate and chute if you can stand on the edge of the chute to elevate yourself somewhat. It makes it much easier on the back to hold the tail with one hand and bend over the top rail to access the back of the cow. You also don't get $hyte on so much.
Another is that it is not 100% accurate. I had a nice young second calf cow that tested open but luckily I liked her enough to move her with the bull. She calved about 7 months later.

In one group I did last year, the technician said that one cow was a "weak" pregnancy. I didn't know what that was so I emailed him. He said in a lot of cases, its when Ia cow aborts a very young fetus shortly before you tested her. Sure enough he was right as it took about 10 months after that for her to calve. Its a good management tool that doesn't cost much.


Great description. Thank you. I wonder if you broke the seal, pierced the skin and then pulled the plunger back if you could create a small vacuum that would pull in the blood much like the vacuum created by the vacutainer.
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