A (seemingly) novel idea

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farmerjan
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Re: A (seemingly) novel idea

Postby farmerjan » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:20 am

One thing I see with this, besides the obvious inbreeding and resulting offspring of too closely related animals, is that the heifers will be getting bred younger. Then there are calving issues which will weed out the ones that can't have the calf, through death. But, when you continually do this type of inbreeding, MANY times the later generations get smaller. The smaller heifers that do calve, have smaller calves and that is why they survived the calvings. They get bred younger, the resulting survivors have smaller calves....The genetics get more concentrated and then there are other problems with not only fertility, but deformities.

Yes the bison did it. Rafter S and Jeanne are right. Neither were confined to a specific group or area. They roamed...over thousands of acres. They interacted with other herds of bison. The bulls fought and took over cows from other bulls. Younger bulls stole away with a few cows to form a new herd. Not only did the breeding take out some of the genetic defects, mother nature...NAMELY PREDATORS...took out the weak and genetically lessor animals. Whether it was wolves, cougars, bears or humans, they were still weeded out. The native Americans would try to take down animals near the edges of the herds so that they did not cause full fledged stampedes too. But through the constant moving and grazing, they were continually coming into contact with other herds and the genetics were never stagnant.
Even though there are many herds of feral horses that have certain traits, and genetic markers, the stallions fight and young studs form bands that roam large areas and sooner or later find a herd that the old stud can no longer defend and there is a new injection of vitality. There are a couple of herds that are known to have a disproportionate number of blind horses through a concentration of genetic defects. But again, they still have a large area to roam, and for new animals to infiltrate and add in new genetics.
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Re: A (seemingly) novel idea

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:39 am

We can beat this subject to death. Bottom line is some people learn a little about genetics and don't REALLY learn genetics.
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Re: A (seemingly) novel idea

Postby WalnutCrest » Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:39 pm

200 yearling bulls in with 4000 cows and 2000 heifers for 60 days (iirc). All opens are culled.

He lets nature decide what wad a good mating and what wasn't.
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Re: A (seemingly) novel idea

Postby Nesikep » Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:22 pm

I think it could make for a suited, hardy animal, but it might not equate to profitable... Any vaccination, mineral, or anything else?
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Re: A (seemingly) novel idea

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:28 pm

Nesi - I haven't been on here for a long time, but I picked up that you are doing a line-breeding program. Is that correct?
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Re: A (seemingly) novel idea

Postby Son of Butch » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:39 pm

Weren't buffalo nearly extinct, at one time down to less than a dozen head?
No choice left but to inbreed to bring their population back up.

Decide to search my own question... current buffalo population 500,000
dna testing estimates only 15,000 - 20,000 are pure buffalo and testing has traced them to 12 founding ancestors
with the current balance of 480,000 all containing some domestic cattle dna making them hybrids
Making 29 out of 30 identified as buffalo actually buffalo hybrids
Last edited by Son of Butch on Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A (seemingly) novel idea

Postby Nesikep » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:44 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Nesi - I haven't been on here for a long time, but I picked up that you are doing a line-breeding program. Is that correct?

I'm dabbling in it, yes, but I don't really intend to have a *completely* closed herd, at least not at this point. From what I'm "feeling", bringing in one GOOD bull for every 2 I raise and use would allow me to make progress in the uniformity area while not going overboard on AVK and IBC.. It's just a juggling act with the small herd I have. Initial results from using my own bull are darned good though.
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Re: A (seemingly) novel idea

Postby Stocker Steve » Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:57 pm

Nesikep wrote:I think it could make for a suited, hardy animal, but it might not equate to profitable...


Scope creep!!! You have made a major increase in the goals.
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Re: A (seemingly) novel idea

Postby Nesikep » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:00 pm

Stocker Steve wrote:
Nesikep wrote:I think it could make for a suited, hardy animal, but it might not equate to profitable...


Scope creep!!! You have made a major increase in the goals.

bet you never thought you'd hear me talk about profitable animals :P
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Re: A (seemingly) novel idea

Postby Stocker Steve » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:01 pm

Son of Butch wrote: Making 29 out of 30 identified as buffalo actually buffalo hybrids


There are pure woods bison up in Canada, and plains beefalo in the US.
Nesi could get in on the woods bison x Limi profits. :nod:
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Re: A (seemingly) novel idea

Postby Nesikep » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:09 pm

Gotta put an arse on them bison somehow!
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Re: A (seemingly) novel idea

Postby frieghttrain » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:37 pm

Nesikep wrote:Gotta put an arse on them bison somehow!

:lol: Good one Nesi!
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Re: A (seemingly) novel idea

Postby Rafter S » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:02 pm

Nesikep wrote:Gotta put an arse on them bison somehow!


Limis might do it.
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Re: A (seemingly) novel idea

Postby Nesikep » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:06 pm

I'd go with GV personally... Belgian Blue would be another to try!
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Re: A (seemingly) novel idea

Postby WalnutCrest » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:43 pm

Nesikep wrote:I think it could make for a suited, hardy animal, but it might not equate to profitable... Any vaccination, mineral, or anything else?


Free choice mineral.

Vaccinations at weaning on the new calves.

Vaccinations at preg checking on the bred calves.

Hay if lots of ice or snow, but generally they eat via managed pastures and stock piled grass.
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