Heifer calves out of younger bull .

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coachg
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Heifer calves out of younger bull .

Postby coachg » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:27 pm

I'm sure someone has asked this before but I couldn't find it in the archives. Are you more likely to get bull calves or heifers out of younger more aggressive breeders ? Retired our old man for a younger bull 4-5 of our fall calves are heifers. I know it can turn around in a hurry but 3-4 of the cows that had heifers always have Bulls. coachg
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Re: Heifer calves out of younger bull .

Postby Son of Butch » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:29 pm

theoretically no difference, from antidotes cows bred earlier in standing heat have higher % of females than bred late in standing heat.... no data to back it up.... so not worth much
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Re: Heifer calves out of younger bull .

Postby coachg » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:00 am

That's what I had always heard, we have black angus and are trying to build our #'s . So we are happy to get the heifers ! Didn't mind all those Bulls from our old man . Sure helped pay for the cows . coachg
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Re: Heifer calves out of younger bull .

Postby farmerjan » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:29 pm

When I was breeding cows as a relief tech the reg tech told me that the sooner a female is bred while coming into heat the more often a heifer calf. Reason, and I heard this from some friends that had 3 sons and were desperately trying for a daughter and their human doctor told them this; the egg has farther to travel when it is first released obviously, and the female carrying sperm are usually able to outlive the male carrying sperm. Also the fluids in the repo tract will change composition and the earlier fluids are more favorable to the female carrying sperm than the later in the heat fluid is more favorable to the male and they don't have as far to travel because the egg is further along in the tract. I can't remember if the fluid starts out more alkaline and changes to acid or the other way around.
One of the vets on here or repro experts can probably explain it better.... but I have found that it seems to be about right that when I breed an animal AI that if I get her early in her heat that she more often has a heifer calf. Although here the past 3 years we have been running 75% overall heifer calves so don't know if that is because the bulls are catching them sooner or if there are other factors at work.
By the way, those friends years ago did what the doctor told them, and they did have a girl for their 4th child.
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Re: Heifer calves out of younger bull .

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:45 pm

I am a firm believer that the early bred AI does produce more heifer calves - but - you are also lowering your chance of conception. Some times the male & female sperm arrive with no egg "in sight" LOL
I was explained by an embryologist science research team doing early work on sexing semen -
The male sperm is more slender and swims faster than the fatter slower female sperm. The male sperm arrives and the egg has not been released. They die off, then the lazy fat females (no pun intended) arrive and the egg is waiting to be fertilized. But, if bred TOO early, they all arrive before the egg is released. What is too early??? that depends on each individual cow and her length of heat cycle. And, I don't know if the length of "hot heat" that we observe is indicative to the length of her release of egg.
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Re: Heifer calves out of younger bull .

Postby pdfangus » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:08 pm

can anyone explain why there is always that cow that you would really like to have a heifer out of that always has bulls....
I have one now.....just presented me with fifth or sixth bull even though we have had long talks while I scratch her back, about how nice it would be to have a pretty little heifer this time.....nother bull last week. I think I might even raise this one as a bull...he is pretty nice and growing well.
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Re: Heifer calves out of younger bull .

Postby dun » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:44 pm

pdfangus wrote:can anyone explain why there is always that cow that you would really like to have a heifer out of that always has bulls....
I have one now.....just presented me with fifth or sixth bull even though we have had long talks while I scratch her back, about how nice it would be to have a pretty little heifer this time.....nother bull last week. I think I might even raise this one as a bull...he is pretty nice and growing well.

She's facing the wrong direction when she's bred.
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Re: Heifer calves out of younger bull .

Postby coachg » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:54 pm

I like that Dun, my dear ole Grandma once said the bull put the sperm in backwards when our ole cow had a breech birth.
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Re: Heifer calves out of younger bull .

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:07 pm

"Supposedly" male sperm & female sperm survive better in different PH environments. I think some cows just have a high or low PH which influences the sex. I once was told to add vinegar to their water - but I don't know if it was for more heifers or for more bulls??? LOL
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Re: Heifer calves out of younger bull .

Postby coachg » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:29 pm

We are up to 6 out of 7 heifer calves. My old # 75 dropped the best heifer of the bunch this morning.
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Re: Heifer calves out of younger bull .

Postby Son of Butch » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:57 pm

pdfangus wrote:Can anyone explain why there is always that cow that you would really like to have a heifer out of that always has bulls...

Jeanne - Simmi Valley wrote:I think some cows just have a high or low PH which influences the sex.

:nod:
I think the cow has a say in determining the sex too.
But in a 50:50 circumstance, just like flipping a coin, a streak of 6 or 8 in row is rare but not an unrealistic expectation.
Just frustrating when you're on the wrong side of the flip.


p.s.
Cleveland Indians just set a new American League record with 22 wins in a row.
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Re: Heifer calves out of younger bull .

Postby coachg » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:57 pm

Two more today ,another heifer for 6 in a row and then a bull calf out of my grand daughters cow. Was pulling for a heifer for her but Paw Paw might trade with her ! 9 on the ground, 7 heifers and 2 Bulls.
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Re: Heifer calves out of younger bull .

Postby pdfangus » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:47 am

dun wrote:
pdfangus wrote:can anyone explain why there is always that cow that you would really like to have a heifer out of that always has bulls....
I have one now.....just presented me with fifth or sixth bull even though we have had long talks while I scratch her back, about how nice it would be to have a pretty little heifer this time.....nother bull last week. I think I might even raise this one as a bull...he is pretty nice and growing well.

She's facing the wrong direction when she's bred.


I actually got to pondering over this and Contacted Dr. Bill Beal the Repro Specialist at Va Tech. asked him if there was anything I could do to change the outcome...

he suggested sexed semen...

I decided to try it and looked up the select sires sexed semen bulls and ordered five units of

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Re: Heifer calves out of younger bull .

Postby angus9259 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:21 am

I like how we can attempt to find "scientific" answers to the randomness of life.

If you flip a coin and the first 99 times it comes up heads, what are the odds that the next one will be heads too? 50%
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Re: Heifer calves out of younger bull .

Postby coachg » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:02 pm

Well that coin is landing on tails the last 3-4 have been Bulls ; count now stands 7 heifers and 5 Bulls . What I like the most is 12 calves in 16 days !
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