Calving Ease

Got a calving or breeding question? Get an answer.
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Bright Raven
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Re: Calving Ease

Postby Bright Raven » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:47 pm

Addressed to True Grit:

Grit stated:
That's about the most ignorant post I've ever read. The Simmental breed is bigger than Ron, and should be treated as such. Some folks will do anything for a dollar and screw trying to improve or do what's right for the breed. Breeders like you two are not doing anything positive for the Simmental breed, just profiting off of it. IMO.

No. The most ignorant post in the annals of Cattle Today was the one where you were Going to gun down a black security guard because of paranoia. Lol.

Second. You are correct. I don't have great expectations that I will improve the Simmental breed. On the other hand, I doubt I am hurting it. I do think I have produced some respectable Simmentals and I have made some buyers very happy because they constantly tell me that.

Third. Thank you for all you have done to improve the Simmental breed.
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Re: Calving Ease

Postby talltimber » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:57 pm

Are you disappointed in not ever having a prime? Do you think you are stretching your cattle's ability to hit choice? Or are you saying you are winning it with just Choice cattle, humble brag style?
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Re: Calving Ease

Postby Fire Sweep Ranch » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:06 pm

talltimber wrote:Are you disappointed in not ever having a prime? Do you think you are stretching your cattle's ability to hit choice? Or are you saying you are winning it with just Choice cattle, humble brag style?


I am MORE than happy with Choice! Most breeders are trying to get 70% in the choice bracket, we have hit 100. Now, our numbers are small, but all those data points we get on our steers are positive, not negative. THOSE ACTUAL NUMBERS I can show to bull buyers of sibs of the steers we are selling...
We are winning it based on CARCASS value, which takes into account CAB credits, credits for Choice grades, low yield grades... all priced based on the values that day. All of the data points collected on our steers go back to the ASA.
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True Grit Farms
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Re: Calving Ease

Postby True Grit Farms » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:39 pm

I know the truth hurts, but selling spotted Simmental cattle as registered and or breeding stock isn't doing the breed right. I try not to breed pimp and enjoy looking at good quality cattle that are representative of the breed. Heck a good longhorn steer can grade choice.
This might just be the bull you need to get over the top to prime.
Image
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Re: Calving Ease

Postby Bright Raven » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:52 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:I know the truth hurts, but selling spotted Simmental cattle as registered and or breeding stock isn't doing the breed right. I try not to breed pimp and enjoy looking at good quality cattle that are representative of the breed. Heck a good longhorn steer can grade choice.
This might just be the bull you need to get over the top to prime.
Image


Vince,
Keep it going. You are on a roll now. :cowboy:
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True Grit Farms
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Re: Calving Ease

Postby True Grit Farms » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:49 pm

Bright Raven wrote:Addressed to True Grit:

Grit stated:
That's about the most ignorant post I've ever read. The Simmental breed is bigger than Ron, and should be treated as such. Some folks will do anything for a dollar and screw trying to improve or do what's right for the breed. Breeders like you two are not doing anything positive for the Simmental breed, just profiting off of it. IMO.

No. The most ignorant post in the annals of Cattle Today was the one where you were Going to gun down a black security guard because of paranoia. Lol.

Second. You are correct. I don't have great expectations that I will improve the Simmental breed. On the other hand, I doubt I am hurting it. I do think I have produced some respectable Simmentals and I have made some buyers very happy because they constantly tell me that.

Third. Thank you for all you have done to improve the Simmental breed.


At least I can say, I didn't do anything to hurt the Simmental breed. :tiphat:
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Re: Calving Ease

Postby Bright Raven » Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:23 am

Preface: This is addressed to the fine fisherman and Breeder of Simmentals - Mr. True Grit Farms. However, anyone is invited to respond. The issue of COLOR and in more particular THE PLACEMENT OR PATTERN OF COLOR in Simmentals has been discussed without documention. True Grit seems to hold the key to explaining what a Simmental SHOULD look like with respect to COLOR AND PATTERN OF COLOR.

Text:

You address "color and placement of color" in the Simmental breed like it is sacred.  One has to wonder if you put "color and markings" above funnctional traits.  Color is not a functional trait.  Especially when compared to udder, feet, calving ease, growth and performance.

In past posts, you have criticized the Simmental breed because the modern American Simmental is mostly Black.  In doing so,  you point out that old world Simmentals or Fleckvieh were a variety of colors - red and white.  More recently, you are up in arms because they are not soild black!!! For reference here is an excerpt describing the old world Fleckvieh:

The traditional colouration of the Simmental has been described variously as "red and white spotted" or "gold and white", although there is no specific standard colouration, and the dominant shade varies from a pale yellow-gold all the way to very dark red (the latter being particularly popular in the United States). The face is normally white, and this characteristic is usually passed to crossbred calves.

My question to you is:  what color and pattern of color is appropriate for the modern American Simmental?  And why is that color or pattern of color important to the integrity of the breed? What is it Grit? Do you want them red and white? All black? Make up your mind.
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Re: Calving Ease

Postby True Grit Farms » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:25 am

Image
The best all around Simmental bull available. IMO
My way of thinking is that a Simmental should look like the best in the breed. I'm a not very smart or well schooled, but I can see and have a fair amount of common sense. And I sure don't see any spotted Simmental bulls in the Select Sires or ABS catalogs. Common sense tells me that my cows should look like the best in the breed. I like blazed faced bulls and have used them and will continue to. I don't have a problem selling a animal with a little white on the belly as breeding or registered stock, but I do have a problem selling a spotted animal as registered that doesn't represent the breed.
Out of a 100+ cows, I have 2 with subpar udders IMO, one SimAngus and one Beefmaster. Otherwise I'm very proud of my girls udders and teats, that's one trait I cull hard for, it's a easy fix. Feet and structure is hard for me to judge, I've only culled one cow because of foot issues and she was 12. My cows only cover 400 acres of ground and very few rocks or hills, but I don't have foot rot, curly toe or any other issues. We also have no pinkeye problems, but I attribute that to lack of forage. I'm always overstocked and the cows keep the grass grazed low.
Ron are you selling any heifers this year?
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Re: Calving Ease

Postby Bright Raven » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:34 am

True Grit Farms wrote:Image
The best all around Simmental bull available. IMO
My way of thinking is that a Simmental should look like the best in the breed. I'm a not very smart or well schooled, but I can see and have a fair amount of common sense. And I sure don't see any spotted Simmental bulls in the Select Sires or ABS catalogs. Common sense tells me that my cows should look like the best in the breed. I like blazed faced bulls and have used them and will continue to. I don't have a problem selling a animal with a little white on the belly as breeding or registered stock, but I do have a problem selling a spotted animal as registered that doesn't represent the breed.
Out of a 100+ cows, I have 2 with subpar udders IMO, one SimAngus and one Beefmaster. Otherwise I'm very proud of my girls udders and teats, that's one trait I cull hard for, it's a easy fix. Feet and structure is hard for me to judge, I've only culled one cow because of foot issues and she was 12. My cows only cover 400 acres of ground and very few rocks or hills, but I don't have foot rot, curly toe or any other issues. We also have no pinkeye problems, but I attribute that to lack of forage. I'm always overstocked and the cows keep the grass grazed low.
Ron are you selling any heifers this year?

I have sold all the heifers except the ones I plan to retain. I have one I am holding for a User here who wants her bred. She is an upgrade.

I only got 5 in this fall's calf group. I would have liked more. It came out 9 bulls, 5 heifers.
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: Calving Ease

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:53 am

I will weigh in on this color issue. I have said it for years, "I don't care if they are red, black, spotted or polka dotted purple. I just want them to be good"
Color is a non-issue for me. Except -- what my buyers will & will not buy.
Back around 2003, I consigned a beautiful bred heifer in a high quality sale. She had about a 1" ring of white above both hind feet. I got KILLED on that sale. If I calved out white feet, they stayed in the herd or were sold private treaty. Now, it does not matter at all. Granted, a chromed up animal and a SPOTTED animal are two different things. But, in todays market, I'm sure I could sell a spotted up heifer to a show person. They are eye-catching!!!! I still love them, but I avoid them for now. I have had one spotted calf (bull - quickly a steer) in the past maybe 15 years.
Bulls are unacceptable, just becomes a steer, and my feedlot buyer doesn't care what color my calves are.
Color of the Simmentals have changed over the years. After the bad taste in the mouth of feedlot buyers from buying the original spotted calves that were back-grounded, then sold to feedlots and finished out at 1700# - spotted cattle became discounted - big-time. Then came the purebred blacks... Now, I can sell a good red heifer as easily as a black one (and a lot of time for more money!) Still difficult to find good red bulls - well, limited choices compared to good black bulls.
I still don't breed for color. Just want them super athletic, easy keeping & good temperament - and PRETTY!!!!
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