Composite Bulls ?

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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:35 pm

My brain is being ignorant. I don't understand "weighed 358# and sold for $297.50"???
Is that $297.50 per hundred?
What are we talking per head American$$??
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby Brute 23 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:11 pm

Stocker Steve wrote:
bird dog wrote:Back to the original question, well sorta. Do people buy these bulls to put on a purebred herd like all angus or all hereford?
I mean you wouldn't put a composite bull like these on a mixed herd would you? Can a 4 or 5 way cross be good?


There are good markets for 1/4 continental breeding.

A 4 or 5 way cross will maximize variation. Not a good market for that kind.

You have the odd prepotent cow that will throw a similar calf with most composite bulls, but they are not common.


Do you think there are more pure bred or cross bred cattle in this world? Good crossbred cows sell 10X faster than pure breds. With a good bull you will have no clue what their background is.
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby gcreekrch » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:35 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
gcreekrch wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:So in real world numbers almost 10% didn't really cut the mustard?


They still sold in a group didn't they? And not singles. They were out of heifers or on the later end. They weighed 358 and sold for $297.50. Costs us about $600 to produce a calf so even the inferior made a little profit.

One of you guys where talking about getting the majority of your cows bred in a 30 day window? So at less than 2lbs a day gain I'd question something? That's good money for the calves so I'm sure they looked great. We always hear how big y'alls weaning weights are up in Canada, its nice to know some of you have normal size calves also.


I can't afford to raise those big calves, it costs too much money. :D

Our cattle spend the summer on open range with wolves and grizzlies harassing them and less than premium grass although lots of it. Our ADG on the whole works comes out to about 2.25 lbs. And yes, we have 80% calved most years in 30 days. Our whole calving season is usually around 50. I've gotten lazy in my middle age and don't like the night check to go on forever.
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby True Grit Farms » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:11 pm

gcreekrch wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:
gcreekrch wrote:
They still sold in a group didn't they? And not singles. They were out of heifers or on the later end. They weighed 358 and sold for $297.50. Costs us about $600 to produce a calf so even the inferior made a little profit.

One of you guys where talking about getting the majority of your cows bred in a 30 day window? So at less than 2lbs a day gain I'd question something? That's good money for the calves so I'm sure they looked great. We always hear how big y'alls weaning weights are up in Canada, its nice to know some of you have normal size calves also.


I can't afford to raise those big calves, it costs too much money. :D

Our cattle spend the summer on open range with wolves and grizzlies harassing them and less than premium grass although lots of it. Our ADG on the whole works comes out to about 2.25 lbs. And yes, we have 80% calved most years in 30 days. Our whole calving season is usually around 50. I've gotten lazy in my middle age and don't like the night check to go on forever.

Your ADG is similar to ours, we use to hear about 700 - 800+ lbs weaning weights from Canada. There's a big difference when you make your cows work for you instead of working for your cows. Do your calves adverage 100+ lbs BW? We have very little calving problems, and seem to cause more problems than we fix. So now we just let the cows calve in the woods and in a few days they'll bring the calves out to show off.
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:36 pm

We went back to 100% AI this year.
We got 60% of the 15 heifers due first 6 days, and 100% bred in 25 days. "I" was impressed!!!!
We started the cowherd 3 weeks after the heifers. Got 85% due 1st 30 days and rest in total of 63 days (including heifers). Had 2 open - slipped into fall breeding.
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby gcreekrch » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:39 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
gcreekrch wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:One of you guys where talking about getting the majority of your cows bred in a 30 day window? So at less than 2lbs a day gain I'd question something? That's good money for the calves so I'm sure they looked great. We always hear how big y'alls weaning weights are up in Canada, its nice to know some of you have normal size calves also.


I can't afford to raise those big calves, it costs too much money. :D

Our cattle spend the summer on open range with wolves and grizzlies harassing them and less than premium grass although lots of it. Our ADG on the whole works comes out to about 2.25 lbs. And yes, we have 80% calved most years in 30 days. Our whole calving season is usually around 50. I've gotten lazy in my middle age and don't like the night check to go on forever.

Your ADG is similar to ours, we use to hear about 700 - 800+ lbs weaning weights from Canada. There's a big difference when you make your cows work for you instead of working for your cows. Do your calves adverage 100+ lbs BW? We have very little calving problems, and seem to cause more problems than we fix. So now we just let the cows calve in the woods and in a few days they'll bring the calves out to show off.


My wife's maid of honor and her husband consistantly wean 650 to 825 lb calves from low to high. These are March and April calves sold in late Oct. and out of 1600 lb + Simmental cows. I don't want to feed cows that big and it has been my experience that too much Sim in a cow means I will likely have to mess with her at calving for some reason or another. Know several other outfits that wean those big, expensive calves.

Our cow's calves weigh under 90 lbs BW for the most part. If a cow has 2 big calves at birth in a row she is culled as that is likely a cow that will lose a calf at birth someday.. We check every couple of hours night and day as it is still late winter here in April. They are out under the spruce for the most part.
Heifers are kept close where we can intervene if need be. Heifer bulls are bought at 70 lb BW or less and should have a couple of generations in their family that are light BW also. Any heifer that is a poor mom gets her calf pulled and grafted to a good cow if the opportunity presents itself. Any heifer that loses a calf at birth for whatever reason is gone. Our cull heifers are lucky to weigh 850 with the calf out of them.

All vaginal prolapses are culled. Any uterine prolapse is kept as long as she breeds back as that is not hereditary and can have a number of reasons for happening.
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby Stocker Steve » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:55 pm

gcreekrch wrote: it has been my experience that too much Sim in a cow means I will likely have to mess with her at calving for some reason or another.


how much is too much for your operation?
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby gcreekrch » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:28 am

Stocker Steve wrote:
gcreekrch wrote: it has been my experience that too much Sim in a cow means I will likely have to mess with her at calving for some reason or another.


how much is too much for your operation?


1/4 or less. Just enough to give a little extra growth. The Angus side milks well enough on it's own.
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:40 am

Not saying they don't work in your program, but my Purebred Simmentals are extremely easy calving. I think I have had 1 maybe 2 that needed assistance in the past 10-15 years that was because of size. Yes, we have abnormal presentations that need assistance. And I do not breed everything to "easy calving" bulls. Actually, quite the opposite. A good portion of my cows are exposed to some very non-easy calving bulls.
If you keep breeding to super easy-calving bulls, you end up with cows that are unable to have a normal size calf. When we need an easy calving bull, we need to watch the Maternal Calving Ease.
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby Silver » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:01 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:If you keep breeding to super easy-calving bulls, you end up with cows that are unable to have a normal size calf. When we need an easy calving bull, we need to watch the Maternal Calving Ease.


Bingo! :nod: