Composite Bulls ?

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Stocker Steve
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Composite Bulls ?

Postby Stocker Steve » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:18 pm

I am looking at some Leachman "Stabilizer" composite bull photos tonight. Nice.
One hears a lot on the horror of using unpredictable crossbred bulls.
One also hears a lot on folks using and liking English/Continental cross bred bulls.

How many generations does it take to go from crossbred to a stable composite?
Does it depend on how similar the breeds are?
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Caustic Burno
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby Caustic Burno » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:25 pm

Stocker Steve wrote:I am looking at some Leachman "Stabilizer" composite bull photos tonight. Nice.
One hears a lot on the horror of using unpredictable crossbred bulls.
One also hears a lot on folks using English/Continental cross bred bulls.

How many generations does it take to go from crossbred to a stable composite?
Does it depend on how similar the breeds are?



I thought it was seven if I remember right.
In my reading about Brangus at the USDA test station in La is where 7 popped in my little brain.
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby Silver » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:35 am

Horror? I guess define horror. Been using crossbred bulls for years. Maybe I'm in the middle of a horror show and just don't know any better?
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:25 am

SimAngus bulls are really hot & doing a good job (evidently!). I think the biggest thing is the parental genetics. The offspring is only as good as the parents.
If one parent was teeny, tiny, frail boned animal & the other was massive, big boned, big shouldered - and they produced a really good looking offspring.
You would get some that looked like the grand dam & some that looked like the grand sire, and some that looked like the sire. A real mish-mash.
Good reason to LOOK at the dam of the bull you buy (and sire if it is not an AI sire).
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby bird dog » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:28 am

They are selling 90 of them in December here in TX. They darn sure look good from the pics.

http://www.leachman.com/sales/leachman- ... tail/id/29
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby Ebenezer » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:25 pm

bird dog wrote:They are selling 90 of them in December here in TX. They darn sure look good from the pics.

http://www.leachman.com/sales/leachman- ... tail/id/29

If they look good: there's the answer. Bid early and often.
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby Chocolate Cow » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:28 pm

Nobody proof read the cover of their catalog? wow.... yeah I know-too picky but a shiny catalog and a glaring error on the cover. :bang:
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby Ebenezer » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:57 am

Read up on segregation of populations if this seems too easy of a fix for a cow herd. Being a holiday, it reminds me of my late FIL and his affinity for desserts. When asked his choice of an assortment, the answer was always, "One of each".

Composities, crosses or whatever you create will express differences in future populations as genes segregate. Several generations of crossing and you will have "one of each". Where the different ending occurs is in the the use of prepotent lines that fix a type. Those are few. I remember an old half Sim back when they were yellow and white. Even 5 or 6 generations later and down to 1/16 SM and 15/16 Angus the calves all looked like the original SM bull in color pattern. Use composites and then you fix segregation or select for type each year. If they are all terminal and the buyers want a mixed looking lot, it is fine.

Full of opinions: some would label it otherwise :-) - The seven generations needed to solidify a breed from composites is not so much sorting for good cattle but sorting for prepotent genes in that population.
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby Stocker Steve » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:27 am

I looked up segregation and recombination of genes. Lots of big words. I think they are trying to say that you seldom get the average when you out cross.
We have been retaining beef heifers for less than 10 years, but one cow family has really began to dominate. Now thinking about retaining a bull calf from this line. Is it correct to say that this family has prepotent genes for our selection criteria?
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:36 am

that is exactly what it I would call it.
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby Silver » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:36 pm

Image

Here is a random photo of a pen full of "one of each" steers. Been running mongrels here on this place for a long time, I don't feel it's doing us any harm.
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby Supa Dexta » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:45 pm

What bugs me about all the mixed cattle is the inconsistency. Find something you like and you cant replicate it.

That an it causes the sale barn to split them off and sell singles all day long, takes forever sitting thru a sale.
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby Silver » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:55 pm

Supa Dexta wrote:What bugs me about all the mixed cattle is the inconsistency. Find something you like and you cant replicate it.

That an it causes the sale barn to split them off and sell singles all day long, takes forever sitting thru a sale.


I've seen plenty of inconsistency in straight bred cattle. Our steer calves usually go through the ring in three bunches divided by weight class. I figure that's okay for a 60 day calving period. Generally the only sort offs are if there happen to be frozen ears or tails, they will pull them out of the show alley and sell them afterwards separately.
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby Muddy » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:29 pm

Our sale barns will accept the mixed group if they are all same weight and sex. They usually sort off oddballs such as horned, frostbitten, longhorn/exotic markings or deformity.
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Re: Composite Bulls ?

Postby frieghttrain » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:31 pm

Silver wrote:Image

Here is a random photo of a pen full of "one of each" steers. Been running mongrels here on this place for a long time, I don't feel it's doing us any harm.

I like that heifer in the back with the limo butt.
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