Corn and calves...

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NEFarmwife
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Corn and calves...

Postby NEFarmwife » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:04 am

We had quite a corn loss this year. Feared turning them out on stalks but was suggested to put mineral out that would keep them from foundering.

Had no issues. That mineral did the trick.

What we are running into now, that we assume MUST be all that heavy corn intake is massive calves! We have never had so many calves this big across the board. We’re weighing at due date, over 100#s.

Our 1st calf heifers were on rye and close to home. No heavy calves. Thankfully.

Our cows however, holy smoly! This may be a DUH for most of you but we’ve never gave it that much thought, except the foundering concern which we circumvented.
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Re: Corn and calves...

Postby Lazy M » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:40 pm

Sounds like a good problem
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Re: Corn and calves...

Postby TexasBred » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:50 pm

NEFarmwife wrote:We had quite a corn loss this year. Feared turning them out on stalks but was suggested to put mineral out that would keep them from foundering.

Had no issues. That mineral did the trick.

What we are running into now, that we assume MUST be all that heavy corn intake is massive calves! We have never had so many calves this big across the board. We’re weighing at due date, over 100#s.

Our 1st calf heifers were on rye and close to home. No heavy calves. Thankfully.

Our cows however, holy smoly! This may be a DUH for most of you but we’ve never gave it that much thought, except the foundering concern which we circumvented.

Roughage seldom if ever causes founder although some things can cause bloat. The stalks should not have any real effect on size of calf as they have very low levels of protein and no starches unless of course there is still quite a bit of corn on the stalk. What kind of weather have you been having the last 3 months.
Last edited by TexasBred on Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Corn and calves...

Postby NEFarmwife » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:55 pm

TexasBred wrote:
NEFarmwife wrote:We had quite a corn loss this year. Feared turning them out on stalks but was suggested to put mineral out that would keep them from foundering.

Had no issues. That mineral did the trick.

What we are running into now, that we assume MUST be all that heavy corn intake is massive calves! We have never had so many calves this big across the board. We’re weighing at due date, over 100#s.

Our 1st calf heifers were on rye and close to home. No heavy calves. Thankfully.

Our cows however, holy smoly! This may be a DUH for most of you but we’ve never gave it that much thought, except the foundering concern which we circumvented.

Roughage seldom if ever causes flounder although some things can cause bloat. The stalks should not have any real effect on size of calf as they have very low levels of protein and no starches unless of course there is still quite a bit of corn on the stalk. What kind of weather have you been having the last 3 months.


Too much grain certainly can cause a cow to founder, as well as bloat.

And that’s what I was expressing in my first statement, too much corn on the ground. Our excessive high winds near harvest dropped a lot of ears. Enough to warrant a trip from the adjuster. Not stalks, we graze stalks all the time without concern.

I was throwing this out here if someone else had cows (especially bred heifers) grazing excessive corn loss on ground this year. As I know we’re calving ahead of many folks.
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Re: Corn and calves...

Postby Lucky_P » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:13 pm

Same bulls as in previous years? If not, BWs on the new sires may be part of the equation.

Increased dietary protein to dams during the last trimester can translate into somewhat higher BWs - typically without increased incidence of dystocia.
Colder temps during the last 1-3 months also results in higher BW... cold temps outside make peripheral blood vessels in skin/extremities constrict to conserve heat... more blood going to internal organs-including the uterus... so increased fetal nutritional state.
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Re: Corn and calves...

Postby kenny thomas » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:24 pm

Lucky_P wrote:Same bulls as in previous years? If not, BWs on the new sires may be part of the equation.

Increased dietary protein to dams during the last trimester can translate into somewhat higher BWs - typically without increased incidence of dystocia.
Colder temps during the last 1-3 months also results in higher BW... cold temps outside make peripheral blood vessels in skin/extremities constrict to conserve heat... more blood going to internal organs-including the uterus... so increased fetal nutritional state.

Thats the first time i have ever had it explained that I understood it.
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Re: Corn and calves...

Postby TexasBred » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:54 pm

NEFarmwife wrote:
TexasBred wrote:
NEFarmwife wrote:We had quite a corn loss this year. Feared turning them out on stalks but was suggested to put mineral out that would keep them from foundering.

Had no issues. That mineral did the trick.

What we are running into now, that we assume MUST be all that heavy corn intake is massive calves! We have never had so many calves this big across the board. We’re weighing at due date, over 100#s.

Our 1st calf heifers were on rye and close to home. No heavy calves. Thankfully.

Our cows however, holy smoly! This may be a DUH for most of you but we’ve never gave it that much thought, except the foundering concern which we circumvented.

Roughage seldom if ever causes flounder although some things can cause bloat. The stalks should not have any real effect on size of calf as they have very low levels of protein and no starches unless of course there is still quite a bit of corn on the stalk. What kind of weather have you been having the last 3 months.


Too much grain certainly can cause a cow to founder, as well as bloat.

And that’s what I was expressing in my first statement, too much corn on the ground. Our excessive high winds near harvest dropped a lot of ears. Enough to warrant a trip from the adjuster. Not stalks, we graze stalks all the time without concern.

I was throwing this out here if someone else had cows (especially bred heifers) grazing excessive corn loss on ground this year. As I know we’re calving ahead of many folks.

Sorry I misunderstood "corn loss". Yes corn can cause acidosis easily.
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Re: Corn and calves...

Postby TexasBred » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:55 pm

kenny thomas wrote:
Lucky_P wrote:Same bulls as in previous years? If not, BWs on the new sires may be part of the equation.

Increased dietary protein to dams during the last trimester can translate into somewhat higher BWs - typically without increased incidence of dystocia.
Colder temps during the last 1-3 months also results in higher BW... cold temps outside make peripheral blood vessels in skin/extremities constrict to conserve heat... more blood going to internal organs-including the uterus... so increased fetal nutritional state.

Thats the first time i have ever had it explained that I understood it.

Why I asked the question about the weather. Corn should not be a source of excess protein unless they were eating a huge amount of it.
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Re: Corn and calves...

Postby NEFarmwife » Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:46 am

Many of the same bulls. We introduced a few new ones. Like Real Perfomace. Most of what is being delivered right now are embryos from our own flush with various sires that we’ve used in the past. Or, emptying out our tanks.

Weather... Mother Nature has been hormonal. November came in cold a week or two but my cold and everyone else’s is completely different, I prefer Texas weather. Lol. December was unseasonably warm with one bad cold spell. These came home in late December. January has been brutal.
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Re: Corn and calves...

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:04 am

The last 60 days of brutal cold PLUS the excess grain intake combined sure can increase the calf weight. But, like LuckyP said, "generally" increased BW due to increase feed does not affect dystocia.
Old timers always preached to lower protein/feed intake last trimester so calves are born smaller. Sooo, universities & MARC did a bunch of research on it. Turns out, higher protein/feed diet increased BW about 10# on average, but cows had LESS calving difficulty than the cows that had restricted diet. Of course, they would have had different BCS, which is key to healthy calves. (good BCS)
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Re: Corn and calves...

Postby Lucky_P » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:24 pm

Additionally, calves born to protein-deficient dams produce significantly less body heat, take a lot longer to get up (and may freeze to death before they do, if temps are COLD) and nurse, so may have much poorer colostrum intake and absorption.
Dam's colostrum quality and quantity may be adversely affected, as well.
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Re: Corn and calves...

Postby skeeter swatter » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:55 pm

Corn is not high in protein. It is high in carbs and starch which can and will increase calf weight, and can lead to more calving problems.
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Re: Corn and calves...

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:36 pm

skeeter swatter wrote:Corn is not high in protein. It is high in carbs and starch which can and will increase calf weight, and can lead to more calving problems.

The corn did and will put on calf weight, but, if you read what was said, the increased weight generally does not increase calving difficulty (dystocia).
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Re: Corn and calves...

Postby skeeter swatter » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:48 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:
skeeter swatter wrote:Corn is not high in protein. It is high in carbs and starch which can and will increase calf weight, and can lead to more calving problems.

The corn did and will put on calf weight, but, if you read what was said, the increased weight generally does not increase calving difficulty (dystocia).


The OP asked about CORN and y'all went off about PROTEIN.
If you're saying a bigger fatter calf can't increase calving difficulty (dystocia) I say B.S.
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Re: Corn and calves...

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:52 pm

All feed stuff has an amount of protein. Corn is what we call a concentrated feed. Corn is only 9% protein, but protein is measured by amount eaten. Cattle grazing higher concentration of corn, increases their protein intake.
You can BS all you want. The research is nothing new. Increase nutritional diet increases the weight of the calf, but the increased strength of the calf, and the increased strength of the cow over-compensates for the additional calf weight.
We are not talking about making your cows obese. Over-all increase may be 10# to the calf.
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