Second chance or cull?

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tom4018
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Re: Second chance or cull?

Postby tom4018 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:20 am

Heard yesterday that someone else last a calf out of another heifer this guy sold at the sale. I don't know any details but makes you wonder.
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Re: Second chance or cull?

Postby elkwc » Sat May 05, 2018 4:05 pm

I agree you are doing the right thing by selling her for slaughter.
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Re: Second chance or cull?

Postby tom4018 » Sat May 05, 2018 5:23 pm

elkwc wrote:I agree you are doing the right thing by selling her for slaughter.

The right thing cost me $700. Most people thought the seller should have stood behind her but he was sorry about your luck. Be the last one I buy from him.
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Re: Second chance or cull?

Postby elkwc » Sat May 05, 2018 5:35 pm

tom4018 wrote:
elkwc wrote:I agree you are doing the right thing by selling her for slaughter.

The right thing cost me $700. Most people thought the seller should have stood behind her but he was sorry about your luck. Be the last one I buy from him.


I hate you lost so much. And I agree the seller should of tried to make it right. I have a friend and his partner who bought some heifers/cows (not sure which) last year at the sale and found out they had BVD. They took them to a local sale barn and sold them. Then thought about it and contacted the seller. He was a few hundred miles away. He had already turned them out with some of his cattle. The deal cost them some money and they found out the seller who sold them when they bought them knew they were positive. And just another reason I don't like buying from a sale unless it is a production sale, ect.
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Re: Second chance or cull?

Postby tom4018 » Sat May 05, 2018 7:51 pm

elkwc wrote:
tom4018 wrote:
elkwc wrote:I agree you are doing the right thing by selling her for slaughter.

The right thing cost me $700. Most people thought the seller should have stood behind her but he was sorry about your luck. Be the last one I buy from him.


I hate you lost so much. And I agree the seller should of tried to make it right. I have a friend and his partner who bought some heifers/cows (not sure which) last year at the sale and found out they had BVD. They took them to a local sale barn and sold them. Then thought about it and contacted the seller. He was a few hundred miles away. He had already turned them out with some of his cattle. The deal cost them some money and they found out the seller who sold them when they bought them knew they were positive. And just another reason I don't like buying from a sale unless it is a production sale, ect.

This was our county cattle association annual sale. They stress quality breeding stock. I know another one of this guy’s heifer lost a calf but unsure of the reason. Mine was not giving any milk and I would think it would be a defect.
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Re: Second chance or cull?

Postby BRYANT » Sun May 06, 2018 8:38 am

you want someone to stand behind a cow then buy off the farm and have it in writing. Buy at a sale they are cheaper but you are buying them where is and as is. I have bought a lot at the sale got some good ones and a few bad ones just the way it is. These so called ''SPECIAL SALES'' well a lot of them cows ain't nothing more than sale barn cattle that have been put together, cleaned up and turned out for a few days then took to a special sale.
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Re: Second chance or cull?

Postby tom4018 » Sun May 06, 2018 8:52 am

BRYANT wrote:you want someone to stand behind a cow then buy off the farm and have it in writing. Buy at a sale they are cheaper but you are buying them where is and as is. I have bought a lot at the sale got some good ones and a few bad ones just the way it is. These so called ''SPECIAL SALES'' well a lot of them cows ain't nothing more than sale barn cattle that have been put together, cleaned up and turned out for a few days then took to a special sale.


This WAS NOT a sale barn heifer. This is a annual sale our county cattleman's association has that promotes quality breeding cattle. The sale is not held at a sale barn, county has an ag facility and they set up pens just for this sale. She was not cheaper, I paid a premium price for her, had better luck with sale barn heifers. At least at sale barn prices when something goes wrong you can recoup most of your money when culling them.
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Re: Second chance or cull?

Postby True Grit Farms » Sun May 06, 2018 12:17 pm

tom4018 wrote:
BRYANT wrote:you want someone to stand behind a cow then buy off the farm and have it in writing. Buy at a sale they are cheaper but you are buying them where is and as is. I have bought a lot at the sale got some good ones and a few bad ones just the way it is. These so called ''SPECIAL SALES'' well a lot of them cows ain't nothing more than sale barn cattle that have been put together, cleaned up and turned out for a few days then took to a special sale.


This WAS NOT a sale barn heifer. This is a annual sale our county cattleman's association has that promotes quality breeding cattle. The sale is not held at a sale barn, county has an ag facility and they set up pens just for this sale. She was not cheaper, I paid a premium price for her, had better luck with sale barn heifers. At least at sale barn prices when something goes wrong you can recoup most of your money when culling them.


I'm shocked the pos wouldn't make it right. We can't afford to have a unhappy customer. Anything that we're not proud of and are willing to stand behind we sell through the sale barn.
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Re: Second chance or cull?

Postby Aaron » Sun May 06, 2018 12:26 pm

Very likely heifer was overfed to be show quality and deposited too much fat into udder, so much so that it inhibits any milk volume. Happens with feedlot heifers, and see it occasionally in the overfed show cattle.

Best to buy straight off the operation, in the pasture, with no bunk feeders in sight. Then you have a fair idea of what your getting.
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Re: Second chance or cull?

Postby BRYANT » Sun May 06, 2018 2:57 pm

I took ''annual sale'' to mean something kind of like what has gotten real popular out here we call them ''special sales''. I don't have no dealings with what you are talking so I cant say what is right or not right. As for me I would never sale a first calf heifer and stand good for her, NOT A HEIFER, to much can and will go wrong, if someone wanted me to stand good for a first calf heifer then I would go ahead and calve them out then sell them at a higher price I also would not give a premium for a first calf , unproven, heifer. but that's just me I hate first calf heifers
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Re: Second chance or cull?

Postby wbvs58 » Sun May 06, 2018 6:43 pm

Tom, I think you should share some of the blame for the loss of the calf, if it was truly starvation then you let the calf starve rather than feed it. Did the sale promotion offer any guarantee for what was sold.

I would not be convinced that the heifer was incapable of producing milk simply by you trying to milk her out after about 10 days. If the calf was not drinking from her she may have been drying up, also oedema of the udder can make it very hard to get milk out.

Ken
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Re: Second chance or cull?

Postby tom4018 » Sun May 06, 2018 7:30 pm

wbvs58 wrote:Tom, I think you should share some of the blame for the loss of the calf, if it was truly starvation then you let the calf starve rather than feed it. Did the sale promotion offer any guarantee for what was sold.

I would not be convinced that the heifer was incapable of producing milk simply by you trying to milk her out after about 10 days. If the calf was not drinking from her she may have been drying up, also oedema of the udder can make it very hard to get milk out.

Ken


Maybe I do share some of the blame but it is the momma’s job to raise the calf. I can’t babysit them. I would double check the sale catalog but everyone I have ever dealt with in the past in this type of sale stood behind their animals.

Evidently the calf couldn’t get any milk either. We tried everything we could to save this calf but failed. I always second guess myself thinking I could have done something different. My whole point of this post was to see if anyone thought she might raise the next one. One of my closest friends and best cattleman I know thought not but I wanted other opinions and it seems like agreed.

I took the loss and will mover on but doubt I will risk anymore of his.
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Re: Second chance or cull?

Postby hornedfrogbbq » Mon May 07, 2018 6:59 pm

jehosofat wrote:I used to give some of them a second chance, but I have taken the Lassiter philosophy lately. If they fail to wean a healthy calf, for ANY reason, the are GONE.


Amen.
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Re: Second chance or cull?

Postby hornedfrogbbq » Mon May 07, 2018 7:03 pm

jehosofat wrote:I used to give some of them a second chance, but I have taken the Lassiter philosophy lately. If they fail to wean a healthy calf, for ANY reason, the are GONE.


Jehosofat, what do you think about Lassiter not wanting to use fly, flea or tick remedies nor shoot coyotes or rattlesnakes? I loved the book (in reprint for those looking for it) but they had a bit more guts than me in the way they raised those Beefmasters. I understand the reasoning and we are culling hard...but they go a step beyond in my mind.
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Re: Second chance or cull?

Postby jehosofat » Mon May 07, 2018 7:27 pm

hornedfrogbbq wrote:
jehosofat wrote:I used to give some of them a second chance, but I have taken the Lassiter philosophy lately. If they fail to wean a healthy calf, for ANY reason, the are GONE.


Jehosofat, what do you think about Lassiter not wanting to use fly, flea or tick remedies nor shoot coyotes or rattlesnakes? I loved the book (in reprint for those looking for it) but they had a bit more guts than me in the way they raised those Beefmasters. I understand the reasoning and we are culling hard...but they go a step beyond in my mind.


Different times, different places. The philosophy and the book are great, but like anything else, you take what you can use and sheit can the rest.

I'm gonna shoot a coyote or a snake anytime I get a chance, and I treat flies relentlessly. Most of the breeding and culling practices I agree with 100%
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