Gonna have an "oops" baby.

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TCRanch
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Gonna have an "oops" baby.

Postby TCRanch » Mon May 07, 2018 1:05 pm

My fault for not pulling the bulls earlier, despite numerous attempts. I saw both bulls showing an interest last August and finally got them moved that day, hoping the damage was not already done. Weaned the calves 7 weeks later & all heifers got a shot of Lutalyse. Never saw any signs of abortion. She was a little older than the other retained heifers so I took her to the vet mid November to get pelvic measured/BANGS; he preg checked her and said he did not feel any signs of pregnancy. All good, right? A few weeks ago I thought it looked like she was getting a gut but dismissed it as me being paranoid. Worked all the cattle yesterday and I'll be darned if she doesn't have a tiny little bag - but big enough to already get a squirt of milk out of a teat. Two of my crew, both of whom have raised cattle their entire lives, estimated she'll calve in about 3 weeks. Went back to check my records, plugged the date I pulled the bulls into the gestation calculator and she's due 5/26. Yup, they nailed it. She'll be 17.5 months when she calves. Both bulls are heifer bulls but one throws calves that average 70-75 lbs & the other's calves are closer to 65-70. Here's hoping the younger, higher calving ease bull is the sire!

So the moral of this story: Lutalyse does not always work and veterinarians are human and can make mistakes.
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Re: Gonna have an "oops" baby.

Postby Ebenezer » Mon May 07, 2018 1:10 pm

There is a recommended time period for Lut. We have calved out several 14 month old heifers unassisted so it goes with the territory. Think of it as a fast return on the investment!
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Re: Gonna have an "oops" baby.

Postby TCRanch » Mon May 07, 2018 1:24 pm

Ebenezer wrote:There is a recommended time period for Lut. We have calved out several 14 month old heifers unassisted so it goes with the territory. Think of it as a fast return on the investment!

So did I wait too long to Lute her?
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Re: Gonna have an "oops" baby.

Postby slick4591 » Mon May 07, 2018 1:32 pm

TCRanch wrote:snip...
So the moral of this story: Lutalyse does not always work and veterinarians are human and can make mistakes.


So true. Last year I took three recips to the vet for palpation and they all were declared open. Decided to give lute shots anyway and a couple weeks later they went to the embryologist. Phone rang a few days later and the embryologist said one was about three months along. :tearhair:
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Re: Gonna have an "oops" baby.

Postby Bright Raven » Mon May 07, 2018 1:49 pm

slick4591 wrote:
TCRanch wrote:snip...
So the moral of this story: Lutalyse does not always work and veterinarians are human and can make mistakes.


So true. Last year I took three recips to the vet for palpation and they all were declared open. Decided to give lute shots anyway and a couple weeks later they went to the embryologist. Phone rang a few days later and the embryologist said one was about three months along. :tearhair:


Dennis. I prefer pregnancy checks with an ultrasound. Or the BioPryn blood test. If I got the time, I use the BioPryn. I sold bred heifers this spring under the CAIP program. I had the vet confirm an ultrasound image on his certification papers. That gives both the seller and buyer confidence. One guy who bought 2 heifers under CAIP said the paperwork he and I put together was complimented by the state approval extension agent.
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Re: Gonna have an "oops" baby.

Postby 5S Cattle » Mon May 07, 2018 3:56 pm

Hmm, never heard of lute not working if given properly
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Re: Gonna have an "oops" baby.

Postby TCRanch » Mon May 07, 2018 5:27 pm

5S Cattle wrote:Hmm, never heard of lute not working if given properly

5ml IM or there is a new Lutalyse HighCon that is 2ml either IM or SQ. And no, it does not always work. Lute + Dex is generally a sure thing.
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Re: Gonna have an "oops" baby.

Postby slick4591 » Mon May 07, 2018 6:29 pm

Bright Raven wrote:Dennis. I prefer pregnancy checks with an ultrasound. Or the BioPryn blood test. If I got the time, I use the BioPryn. I sold bred heifers this spring under the CAIP program. I had the vet confirm an ultrasound image on his certification papers. That gives both the seller and buyer confidence. One guy who bought 2 heifers under CAIP said the paperwork he and I put together was complimented by the state approval extension agent.


Closest ultrasound vet for the public is 1 1/4 hour from me. I'm just working with my available resources.
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Re: Gonna have an "oops" baby.

Postby Bright Raven » Mon May 07, 2018 6:35 pm

slick4591 wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:Dennis. I prefer pregnancy checks with an ultrasound. Or the BioPryn blood test. If I got the time, I use the BioPryn. I sold bred heifers this spring under the CAIP program. I had the vet confirm an ultrasound image on his certification papers. That gives both the seller and buyer confidence. One guy who bought 2 heifers under CAIP said the paperwork he and I put together was complimented by the state approval extension agent.


Closest ultrasound vet for the public is 1 1/4 hour from me. I'm just working with my available resources.


I assumed they all had the Ultrasound gadget.
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Re: Gonna have an "oops" baby.

Postby Silver » Mon May 07, 2018 6:35 pm

I see I also have an "oops" heifer. I pulled her out of the bunch when I was branding last Tuesday. We'll keep her close by and hopefully we can save the pair. It's too bad, odds are good she won't breed back in time to stay another year, but stranger things have happened.
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Re: Gonna have an "oops" baby.

Postby Workinonit Farm » Mon May 07, 2018 7:09 pm

TCRanch wrote:5ml IM or there is a new Lutalyse HighCon that is 2ml either IM or SQ. And no, it does not always work. Lute + Dex is generally a sure thing.


(insert nodding emoticon here). Geberally, yes, Lute & dex together will work.

As for the 'teen-age pregnancy', it has happened to many of us. I'v had 2, in the last 17 years. One, about 12 years ago was 14 months old and she had it just fine, claimed it and raised it but neither one of them amounted to much so I sold them both. The second one was just over a year ago and she was 15 months old. Calved just fine, claimed it and when it weaned it weighed more than half its momma's weight. The cow looks a bit like a dink, but she (apparently) bred back right off and had her 2nd calf about 3 weeks ago. I decided to keep that one.

Good luck with it. It doesn't always end in a train wreck.
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Re: Gonna have an "oops" baby.

Postby Ebenezer » Mon May 07, 2018 8:24 pm

TCRanch wrote:
Ebenezer wrote:There is a recommended time period for Lut. We have calved out several 14 month old heifers unassisted so it goes with the territory. Think of it as a fast return on the investment!

So did I wait too long to Lute her?

I'll try to find out.
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Re: Gonna have an "oops" baby.

Postby Supa Dexta » Tue May 08, 2018 5:39 am

5ml is 93% effective up to 100 days bred, I think 150 days is around the max you want to try and use it and expect any results.

She probably should have been done twice having seen the bulls after her for better results.
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Re: Gonna have an "oops" baby.

Postby Ky hills » Tue May 08, 2018 7:34 pm

It may very well turn out ok, we buy heifers around 500-600lbs, and it's not unusual to end up with 2 or three of them that are bred at the time of sale. Then admittedly I have some ppm and sometimes don't get the oldest calves weaned soon enough and have one get bred. Have had it go both ways when calving them out but, thankfully we have more calve ok and raise their calves than not. That being said just last Saturday morning noticed a heifer laying down at the bottom of a hill by herself. She had been called 3 months bred by a vet intern about a month earlier. I went down to check and saw 2 feet and a tongue. got her to the barn and pulled the calf. I figured it would be dead but it was living. It was slow and weak so I tube fed it colostrum and he is now taking a bottle good.
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Re: Gonna have an "oops" baby.

Postby farmerjan » Tue May 08, 2018 9:28 pm

Supa Dexta is right. Lute is suggested by 100 days and 150 is pushing it. Lute and Dex works better but there is still room for error. If concerned, always give 2 shots at least 2 weeks apart. Vets have been known to miss an occasional pregnancy when doing palpations. Ultrasound is much more exact, but we do palpation preg cks due to a retired vet friend doing them and he does them on the weekend when my son is off work often.... we trade back and forth and Michael works on his tractor and we have "sold" him hay in exchange...
Hope that she does okay with the two bulls being "easy calving" bulls. If she has some growth then the calf ought to be small and all. No guarantees, but be diligent and don't look for trouble.
Have had a couple over the years too, so believe everyone and realize it happens. I have one that is on her 4th or 5th calf. She is smaller, stunted a bit from the "oops" first calf; but she does a good job, and her "oops" daughter, surprise, is on her 3rd calf I think. Good cow family, so they get a second chance even if the "oops" calf is small. I do try to give them an extra 6 months though. If they calve in say April, then I hold them over and don't put them with the bull in say June/July, but wait and put them with the bull in Nov/Dec for a fall calf. They get 18 months between calves and it gives them a bit of time to grow a little before having to support a calf and a new pregnancy. They usually always breed and they have some weight gained back and pull the calf and they get about a 3-4 month break between calves. It seems to really help, and I usually don't have any trouble with them rebreeding yearly after that.
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