Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Backgrounding & feeding questions.
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True Grit Farms
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby True Grit Farms » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:18 am

Bright Raven wrote:
ddd75 wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:ddd posted:
/quote]


Arguing with a liberal... you gotta love it. :lol2:

I should of known when you started talking about how bulls are raping cows.


Neighbor, you guys throw that liberal label around like it is a switchblade knife. Trust me. Jeanne is a firm Conservative. I see her Facebook every day!!!!!

Facebook? Real news for real people. This ddd75 person has no management and no breeding season, almost like the way we do it. Throwing the cows and bulls out together, moving them when the grass gets short, feed them hay when you have no grass, and bury the occasional one's that die. When you want some money gather up a few of the older calves and trailer wean them to the sale barn. You can hang out and get your check the same day, I've done it and still do it this way.
Jeanne knows more about cattle than most, and is a wealth of knowledge and information for us on CT. Listen up you might just learn something.
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby Bright Raven » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:21 am

True Grit Farms wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
ddd75 wrote:


Neighbor, you guys throw that liberal label around like it is a switchblade knife. Trust me. Jeanne is a firm Conservative. I see her Facebook every day!!!!!

Facebook? Real news for real people. This ddd75 person has no management and no breeding season, almost like the way we do it. Throwing the cows and bulls out together, moving them when the grass gets short, feed them hay when you have no grass, and bury the occasional one's that die. When you want some money gather up a few of the older calves and trailer wean them to the sale barn. You can hang out and get your check the same day, I've done it and still do it this way.
Jeanne knows more about cattle than most, and is a wealth of knowledge and information for us on CT. Listen up you might just learn something.


Jeanne and I have been social media friends for years. They simply do not come any better than that nice Lady.
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby Allenw » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:02 am

ddd75 wrote:oh look what I found..


In this new era of elevated feed costs (both grain and hay), developing heifers from weaning to breeding involves a substantial investment. And, if heifers developed this winter fail to re-breed after their first calf next summer, much of the cost associated with developing them will not be recovered.

To avoid non-pregnant 2- and 3-year old cows at the end of the breeding season, producers are considering altering the nutritional development of heifers between weaning and first breeding. One of the quickest ways to maximize reproductive performance is to provide more nutrients. However, based on recently-reported data, this is probably not the most economical solution.

A New Approach
Historically, heifers have been developed to weigh approximately 60-65% of their mature body weight at breeding time (about 13-14 months old), in an effort to increase pregnancy rate. This practice has been based largely on evidence that: 1) increased energy intake during development improves heifer pregnancy rate, and 2) heifers developed to a body weight less than 65% take longer to re-breed after calving as a 2-year old. Yet, some argue that increasing the amount of feed provided (which increases costs substantially) in order to increase pregnancy rate leads to a long-term cycle of elevating costs and declining profitability on a cattle operation.

Several researchers have begun to explore the possibility of developing heifers at a slower rate, which ultimately leads to weights at first breeding that are lighter than historical averages. Nebraska research led by Dr. Rick Funston compared the long-term reproductive performance of two groups of crossbred heifers developed to 53% (low gain) and 58% (high gain) of mature body weight. The heifers were developed on identical rations (hay, wheat middlings, corn, and supplement), except for a difference in corn to reflect the increased gain in the “high gain” heifers. Interestingly, there was no difference between the two groups for pregnancy rates through the fourth breeding season (Table 1).

An economic evaluation was conducted by University of Nebraska researchers to follow-up on the reduced gain concept. The above data were used, in addition to data from an experiment by Creighton (also in Nebraska) where two development systems were compared: low gain (to 50% of mature weight, prior to breeding for 60 days) vs. high gain (to 55% of mature weight, prior to breeding for 45 days). Similarly, the low gain heifers had a pregnancy rate of 87% in a 60-day season compared to a pregnancy rate of 89% in a 45-day breeding season in the high gain heifers.

Using estimated feed costs and cattle prices over an 11-year period, the “low gain” heifers cost $27 per bred heifer less than the “high gain” heifers (Table 2), when data were averaged over the 11-year period. Average calf birth date, weight, difficulty, and loss were similar for both treatments, as well as calf gain and weaning weight
. It should be noted that this analysis was conducted prior to the recent hike in grain and hay prices. Thus, it’s possible that cost savings could be even larger today.



Looks like 50 - 55% target weight.. I was RIGHT ON.. These are LOW weight heifers. I'm sure it would be even more difference if they used low weight 50% vs. an average 65% weight.

Looks like maybe the teacher needs to go back to school. :nod:

$$$$$ in your pocket for the entire life of that cow.


BOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!! goes the dynamite..



Didn't see a word in all of that about breeding to calve at 18 months old.

I have wondered about breeding lighter weight heifers with enough age, no reason why they shouldn't go ahead and grow out before calving.
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby ddd75 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:47 am

Allenw wrote:.


Didn't see a word in all of that about breeding to calve at 18 months old.

I have wondered about breeding lighter weight heifers with enough age, no reason why they shouldn't go ahead and grow out before calving..



yea I didn't see anything about the sky being blue when they are bred.
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby ddd75 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:50 am

True Grit Farms wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
ddd75 wrote:


Neighbor, you guys throw that liberal label around like it is a switchblade knife. Trust me. Jeanne is a firm Conservative. I see her Facebook every day!!!!!

Facebook? Real news for real people. This ddd75 person has no management and no breeding season, almost like the way we do it. Throwing the cows and bulls out together, moving them when the grass gets short, feed them hay when you have no grass, and bury the occasional one's that die. When you want some money gather up a few of the older calves and trailer wean them to the sale barn. You can hang out and get your check the same day, I've done it and still do it this way.
Jeanne knows more about cattle than most, and is a wealth of knowledge and information for us on CT. Listen up you might just learn something.

pretty much except I do wean and grow them out to around 700 lbs.
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:32 pm

Thanks everyone. I "assumed" everyone else got the picture!!!
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby ddd75 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:33 am

thanks all as well. glad you agree with me.
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby Bright Raven » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:22 am

ddd75 wrote:thanks all as well. glad you agree with me.


I didn't say anything about agreeing or disagreeing. I found it interesting. I just said Jeanne is clearly a Conservative Catholic lady who has a reputation in the Simmental Breed.

You had a farm in Lewis. Jeanne is good friends with the Phillips family in Tollesboro. Rocking P. Keith and Chan. Chan worked as a consultant for Hudson Pine Farms.

I think your approach is interesting. It is certainly not following the crowd. My operation is microscopic compared to yours. I am breeding right now (all AI) if the first round sticks, I would have every calf in a 2 week window beginning August 28, 2018. I don't expect them all to stick. I only had 5 heifers. They are 14 months old and probably weigh between 800 and 900 with one, easily a 1000. She is an Upgrade promised to a guy at Morehead who is on this forum. She is built like an absolute tank.
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby Bright Raven » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:32 am

True Grit Farms wrote: This ddd75 person has no management and no breeding season, almost like the way we do it. Throwing the cows and bulls out together, moving them when the grass gets short, feed them hay when you have no grass, and bury the occasional one's that die. When you want some money gather up a few of the older calves and trailer wean them to the sale barn. You can hang out and get your check the same day, I've done it and still do it this way.


Vince,

You don't do much management, you have said that before. That puts you in the category, " Do as I say, not as I do." ;-)

You are an odd one brother. :lol:
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby TexasBred » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:18 am

Stocker Steve wrote:I have tested my roughage and are trying to do a good job of laying out a balanced ration for replacement heifers. I have calculated ADG targets for moderate heifers being bred at 800#, with some compensatory gain expected on pasture, and I am coming up with less than a pound per day required during the winter. Does this rate of grain sound reasonable to you?

Thought I'd go back to the original post. Steve you may have already answered this but do you breed based on weight or age? I've always bred based on age, my thinking being that a heifer that might be somewhat smaller at breeding age was simply going to be a smaller framed cow at maturity. Have done this with both dairy and beef cattle. I have no intentions of feeding one for 24 months waiting on her to get to some preconceived "proper breeding weight". As for breeding young if I know a heifer has come in heat at a younger age and was actually bred by the bull I would abort the calf and not allow her to breed until she was the proper age. Fortunately I've not had it happen yet.
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby littletom » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:57 pm

ddd75 wrote:thanks all as well. glad you agree with me.

Everyone has different way of doing things. The great thing about being your own boss. Are you line breeding these young heifers?
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby Stocker Steve » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:20 pm

I have been sorting by size and breeding by age. So I cull a few dinks and one or two nut jobs at weaning, and then a cull a few with "too much power" as yearlings.
Since many like large fleshy bred heifers -- I have been wondering if I should just sell the jumbos as breds?
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby Bright Raven » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:27 pm

Stocker Steve wrote:I have been sorting by size and breeding by age. So I cull a few dinks and one or two nut jobs at weaning, and then a cull a few with "too much power" as yearlings.
Since many like large fleshy bred heifers -- I have been wondering if I should just sell the jumbos as breds?


Yes. It is interesting that a lot is said about "moderation". I hear more comments:

1. That heifer is small.
2. Now, that is a nice big stout heifer.
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby True Grit Farms » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:39 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Stocker Steve wrote:I have been sorting by size and breeding by age. So I cull a few dinks and one or two nut jobs at weaning, and then a cull a few with "too much power" as yearlings.
Since many like large fleshy bred heifers -- I have been wondering if I should just sell the jumbos as breds?


Yes. It is interesting that a lot is said about "moderation". I hear more comments:

1. That heifer is small.
2. Now, that is a nice big stout heifer.

Same can be said for bulls, it's very hard to walk the walk, anybody can talk the talk. We try and make our commercial cows work for us, we already spend to much time trying to sell registered bulls and heifers. Net dollar wise, the cows with little management will put more money in our pockets year in and year out.
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby ddd75 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:36 pm

littletom wrote:
ddd75 wrote:thanks all as well. glad you agree with me.

Everyone has different way of doing things. The great thing about being your own boss. Are you line breeding these young heifers?


yes.
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