Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:45 pm

Line breeding - meaning the sire is breeding his daughters?
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby ddd75 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:11 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Line breeding - meaning the sire is breeding his daughters?

thats what linebreeding means Jeanne.

Let me know if you need anymore help with anything.
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby True Grit Farms » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:12 am

ddd75 wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Line breeding - meaning the sire is breeding his daughters?

thats what linebreeding means Jeanne.

Let me know if you need anymore help with anything.

No it doesn't, and Jeanne doesn't need any help from another village idiot.
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby ddd75 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:19 am

True Grit Farms wrote:
ddd75 wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Line breeding - meaning the sire is breeding his daughters?

thats what linebreeding means Jeanne.

Let me know if you need anymore help with anything.

No it doesn't, and Jeanne doesn't need any help from another village idiot.


oh ok.. :lol2:

Whats it mean then?
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby True Grit Farms » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:27 am

ddd75 wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:
ddd75 wrote:thats what linebreeding means Jeanne.

Let me know if you need anymore help with anything.

No it doesn't, and Jeanne doesn't need any help from another village idiot.


oh ok.. :lol2:

Whats it mean then?

https://onpasture.com/2014/10/20/breedi ... -breeding/
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby ddd75 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:33 am

True Grit Farms wrote:
ddd75 wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:No it doesn't, and Jeanne doesn't need any help from another village idiot.


oh ok.. :lol2:

Whats it mean then?

https://onpasture.com/2014/10/20/breedi ... -breeding/



i'll take my lessons from people who truly create wealth from cattle such as gerald fry. If some lady named tataipa decides I'm 'inbreeding' and not 'linebreeding' then thats great. I'm sure she's never raised a cow in her life.

That article did tell me my bull is defect free though. thanks.
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby True Grit Farms » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:42 am

Your welcome.
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby plumber_greg » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:10 am

ddd75 wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
Neighbor, you guys throw that liberal label around like it is a switchblade knife. Trust me. Jeanne is a firm Conservative. I see her Facebook every day!!!!!

Facebook? Real news for real people. This ddd75 person has no management and no breeding season, almost like the way we do it. Throwing the cows and bulls out together, moving them when the grass gets short, feed them hay when you have no grass, and bury the occasional one's that die. When you want some money gather up a few of the older calves and trailer wean them to the sale barn. You can hang out and get your check the same day, I've done it and still do it this way.
Jeanne knows more about cattle than most, and is a wealth of knowledge and information for us on CT. Listen up you might just learn something.

pretty much except I do wean and grow them out to around 700 lbs.

I'm not wanting to argue, but if your 800-1000 lb heifers wean, as you stated 650-700lb calves, which is up to 80% of the cow weight, how econonical is it to wean and grow them out to 700 lbs? Seems you're goin' backwards. Sounds like a lot of :bs: is going on here. gs
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby TexasBred » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:36 am

plumber_greg wrote:I'm not wanting to argue, but if your 800-1000 lb heifers wean, as you stated 650-700lb calves, which is up to 80% of the cow weight, how econonical is it to wean and grow them out to 700 lbs? Seems you're goin' backwards. Sounds like a lot of :bs: is going on here. gs

You're right on Greg but do you think this dumb a$$ would recognize it. :shock:
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby ddd75 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:01 am

plumber_greg wrote:
ddd75 wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:Facebook? Real news for real people. This ddd75 person has no management and no breeding season, almost like the way we do it. Throwing the cows and bulls out together, moving them when the grass gets short, feed them hay when you have no grass, and bury the occasional one's that die. When you want some money gather up a few of the older calves and trailer wean them to the sale barn. You can hang out and get your check the same day, I've done it and still do it this way.
Jeanne knows more about cattle than most, and is a wealth of knowledge and information for us on CT. Listen up you might just learn something.

pretty much except I do wean and grow them out to around 700 lbs.

I'm not wanting to argue, but if your 800-1000 lb heifers wean, as you stated 650-700lb calves, which is up to 80% of the cow weight, how econonical is it to wean and grow them out to 700 lbs? Seems you're goin' backwards. Sounds like a lot of :bs: is going on here. gs



when did I say I have 800 lb heifers weaning 700 lb calves?


I pull calves off my heifers at around 450 lbs to help my lil itty bitty inbred heifers breed back on time.
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:55 am

Linebreeding vs inbreeding:
http://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org ... nebreeding
http://kb.rspca.org.au/what-do-the-term ... n_334.html
http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/genetics/inbreeding.html

"I pull calves off my heifers at around 450 lbs to help my lil itty bitty inbred heifers breed back on time."
See, you keep making statements that contradict previous statements. "IF" you weaned any calves, that means you take them away from the dams. "IF" you take heifer calves away from their dams, do you purposely put their sire in with them? If they are getting bred at these young ages, they obviously get exposure to a bull (the sire according to you).

We need to end this. You admittedly have no management (but that's your program and it's OK for you), but I just wanted to clarify to all the "readers" out there, that breeding heifers at a very young age is not proper management, and breeding heifers to their sire (at any age) is not proper management.
You just keep digging your hole deeper & deeper.
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby ddd75 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:44 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Linebreeding vs inbreeding:
http://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org ... nebreeding
http://kb.rspca.org.au/what-do-the-term ... n_334.html
http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/genetics/inbreeding.html

"I pull calves off my heifers at around 450 lbs to help my lil itty bitty inbred heifers breed back on time."
See, you keep making statements that contradict previous statements. "IF" you weaned any calves, that means you take them away from the dams. "IF" you take heifer calves away from their dams, do you purposely put their sire in with them? If they are getting bred at these young ages, they obviously get exposure to a bull (the sire according to you).

We need to end this. You admittedly have no management (but that's your program and it's OK for you), but I just wanted to clarify to all the "readers" out there, that breeding heifers at a very young age is not proper management, and breeding heifers to their sire (at any age) is not proper management.
You just keep digging your hole deeper & deeper.



uhh...

I'll take advice from successful cattlemen and my own success vs. what you think / believe.
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby Son of Butch » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:05 pm

ddd75 wrote:A New Approach

One of the quickest ways to maximize reproductive performance is to provide more nutrients.
However, based on recently-reported data, this is probably not the most economical solution.

Historically, heifers have been developed to weigh approximately 60-65% of their mature body weight
at breeding time (about 13-14 months old)

Several researchers have begun to explore the possibility of developing heifers at a slower rate,
which leads to weights at first breeding that are lighter than historical averages.
Nebraska research...compared the long-term reproductive performance of two groups of crossbred heifers
developed to 53% (low gain) and 58% (high gain) of mature body weight.

The heifers were developed on identical rations (hay, wheat middlings, corn, and supplement),
except for a difference .... in corn in the “high gain” heifers.

Interestingly, there was no difference for pregnancy rates through the fourth breeding season (Table 1).

An economic evaluation was conducted to follow-up on the reduced gain concept.
the “low gain” heifers cost $27 per bred heifer less than the “high gain” heifers .


Back to the original question of less than 1 lb gain per day and there is some interesting information here.
Thanks to ddd75 posting it.
First there is no change as to the recommended age of 13-14 months at breeding only the weight.

Assuming 1325 lbs as your mature target weight, then your heifers need to weigh 700 - 850 lbs at breeding.
1325 x 53% = 702 lbs
55% = 729 lbs
58% = 769 lbs
60% = 795
65% = 860

It appears there is no significant advantage in getting heifers to over 700 lbs by 13 months of age
and by reducing energy input (corn) $27 cheaper... or a savings of $4 per year over a 7 year life span.

Assuming target breeding date of June 1st and heifer weight of 550 lbs as of December 1st
then an average gain of .90 lbs per day for the 180 day period is 162 lbs and completely acceptable.
550 + 162 = 712 lbs

As for selling the 'jumbo' bred heifers, you've already spent the extra $30 in feed getting them to that weight and
are not yet at their mature weight. So I don't see any significant advantage in selling them because whether bred at
700 lbs or 850 lbs the mature weight of both will be 1325 lbs.
But the info provided shows not pushing weights past 700 lbs at breeding age does no harm and is more economical.
Something I should consider doing as it would do no harm to my heifers to be 50-60 lbs lighter at breeding.
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby Stocker Steve » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:57 pm

Sorted off steer calves today. Cows are unhappy but calves don't seem to mind. The steer calves will be getting a lot of corn silage and we are targeting a 2.5 ADG.
Heifers went back out bale grazing with the cows. They are on free choice meadow grass hay and oats, so little danger of fatty udders here. With a sip of milk I think most of them can do the 1.0 ADG. A few wf cows dry off pretty early and their calves seem to fall behind in our system.
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Re: Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

Postby plumber_greg » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:42 am

ddd75 wrote:
Supa Dexta wrote:
ddd75 wrote:Anything around 650 - 700 lbs IMO is ready to bred.. which for my cows would be around 60% of full growth weight.


Thats around my 205 day weaning weights. :lol:



yea.. they are usually around that mark at around weaning time. I usually wean off at around 8 months old.


crazy to me how some people will hold a heifer until 2 to get bred.. then she's almost 3 before she calves?! mine have already thrown out a 2nd.
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