As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

For the dairy folks and/or beef folks with questions about udders, milk and mastitis.
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Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Stocker Steve » Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:20 am

Aaron wrote:
HDRider wrote:They mentioned that in the article and said banks were happy to lend using the quota as collateral.


Oh they are. But it is a completely screwed up system. Everyone ignores the fact that it's value (quota) is based on regulation of production. If government decides it no longer makes sense to have production limits regulated, than it no longer has value. But it is still debt according to the bank, so who do you think is left holding the reigns? Taxpayers. Because dairymen will demand to be covered from the loss, even though it is them that decided it had value in the first place.


For large existing players - - a main benefit from regulation is to reduce start ups and thus reduce competition.
Usually it is under the guise of licensing and reporting and inspections. Here we also have a production quota.

What happened in Euro zone when they went away from dairy quotas?
I think their plan was to export, because they did this a couple years ago when milk prices were high.
Last edited by Stocker Steve on Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Aaron » Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:40 am

Stocker Steve wrote:
Aaron wrote:
HDRider wrote:They mentioned that in the article and said banks were happy to lend using the quota as collateral.


Oh they are. But it is a completely screwed up system. Everyone ignores the fact that it's value (quota) is based on regulation of production. If government decides it no longer makes sense to have production limits regulated, than it no longer has value. But it is still debt according to the bank, so who do you think is left holding the reigns? Taxpayers. Because dairymen will demand to be covered from the loss, even though it is them that decided it had value in the first place.


For large existing players - - a main benefit form regulation is to reduce start ups and thus reduce competition.
Usually it is under the guise of reporting and inspections. Here we also have a quota.
What happened in Euro zone when they went away from dairy quotas?


There is reporting and regular inspections here. Neighbors were filthy lazy dairy farmers and got 3 strikes from the inspector. 3rd strike he said, your done - sell the cows and the quota, you'll never ship milk in this country again.
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Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Silver » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:28 am

Logar wrote:In Canada - the chickens and the dairy are protected by a very socialist system in a very socialist country. They do not truly need to know how to complete because they are guaranteed to make a profit and sell their quota for millions when they retire.

Beef and pigs are pretty much on their own.

All other remaining agriculture operations essentially scramble for the crumbs.

Socialism in Canada is on the increase - especially in the cities - but not much goes to their farmers.

As with most lefty countries, food is only important when you are hungry.Otherwise the "government will provide."

Best to all.


Well now we all know how little you know. Thanks.
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Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Aaron » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:10 am

Silver wrote:
Logar wrote:In Canada - the chickens and the dairy are protected by a very socialist system in a very socialist country. They do not truly need to know how to complete because they are guaranteed to make a profit and sell their quota for millions when they retire.

Beef and pigs are pretty much on their own.

All other remaining agriculture operations essentially scramble for the crumbs.

Socialism in Canada is on the increase - especially in the cities - but not much goes to their farmers.

As with most lefty countries, food is only important when you are hungry.Otherwise the "government will provide."

Best to all.


Well now we all know how little you know. Thanks.


I thought he pretty well nailed it.
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Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Stocker Steve » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:59 am

Logar wrote:In Canada - the chickens and the dairy are protected by a very socialist system in a very socialist country. They do not truly need to know how to complete because they are guaranteed to make a profit and sell their quota for millions when they retire.


Why a white meat, but not a red meat, quota? Sound like discrimination.
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Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Silver » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:25 am

Aaron wrote:
Silver wrote:
Logar wrote:In Canada - the chickens and the dairy are protected by a very socialist system in a very socialist country. They do not truly need to know how to complete because they are guaranteed to make a profit and sell their quota for millions when they retire.

Beef and pigs are pretty much on their own.

All other remaining agriculture operations essentially scramble for the crumbs.

Socialism in Canada is on the increase - especially in the cities - but not much goes to their farmers.

As with most lefty countries, food is only important when you are hungry.Otherwise the "government will provide."

Best to all.


Well now we all know how little you know. Thanks.


I thought he pretty well nailed it.


I bet you did.
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Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Aaron » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:17 pm

Silver wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Silver wrote:
Well now we all know how little you know. Thanks.


I thought he pretty well nailed it.


I bet you did.


Well you do live in BC, so it's pretty much natural for you to object. I understand.
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Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Silver » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:18 pm

Aaron wrote:
Silver wrote:
Aaron wrote:
I thought he pretty well nailed it.


I bet you did.


Well you do live in BC, so it's pretty much natural for you to object. I understand.


That's just the problem, you don't understand.
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Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Son of Butch » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:53 pm

Milk and eggs were extremely perishable items when Canadian quota system was established and their government
placed a priority on a consistent supply vs feast or famine free market fluctuations bring. In effect they chose for
their consumers to pay a premium to insure a regulated supply. History has shown well fed masses seldom revolt.
Starting back in the 1930s America has chosen policies to generate the cheapest commodity supplies for the masses.
Neither market is free, just regulated using different means.
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Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Aaron » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:41 pm

Silver wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Silver wrote:
I bet you did.


Well you do live in BC, so it's pretty much natural for you to object. I understand.


That's just the problem, you don't understand.


Well you point out what you consider as lies by Logar and we can go from there.
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Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Silver » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:10 pm

Aaron wrote:
Silver wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Well you do live in BC, so it's pretty much natural for you to object. I understand.


That's just the problem, you don't understand.


Well you point out what you consider as lies by Logar and we can go from there.


If you don't take any issue with what he said then you are a p!ss poor Canadian and not worth having a discussion with. I don't suffer fools gladly and I won't start with the likes of you two.
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Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Aaron » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:07 pm

Silver wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Silver wrote:
That's just the problem, you don't understand.


Well you point out what you consider as lies by Logar and we can go from there.


If you don't take any issue with what he said then you are a p!ss poor Canadian and not worth having a discussion with. I don't suffer fools gladly and I won't start with the likes of you two.


Ahhh. Ok, now I know who you are in the most basic of terms. One of those die-hard chest-pounding Canadian Socialists. The ones who look down on (or even have deep-seeded hatred for) the Americans and suffer from that Canadian inferiority complex. The socialist way is the right way, capitalism is the root of all evil, etc, etc.

And here I pegged you for a staunch royal blue Conservative. World is full of surprises.

It is no secret here or offline that I am a hard-nosed Libertarian, so that would clash sharply with your apparent socialist ideals.
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Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Nesikep » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:55 am

Live by the sword, die by the sword... you want your free market.. well, there you have it... I think having a dollar value on quota is bad, but steady, predictable supply and prices are a good thing for both the producers and the consumers.

If I could guarantee $2.25CDN (~1.75 USD) for good 5 wt steers for the next 10 years, I'd do it.. Rather that than a year at $3/lb and then falling to $1.25 for the next 5.
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Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby True Grit Farms » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:35 am

Nesikep wrote:Live by the sword, die by the sword... you want your free market.. well, there you have it... I think having a dollar value on quota is bad, but steady, predictable supply and prices are a good thing for both the producers and the consumers.

If I could guarantee $2.25CDN (~1.75 USD) for good 5 wt steers for the next 10 years, I'd do it.. Rather that than a year at $3/lb and then falling to $1.25 for the next 5.


I'll take my chances on the free market and let supply and demand drive the price. IMO, Our problems are caused by the paper pushers speculating for a dollar.
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Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Silver » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:46 am

Aaron wrote:
Ahhh. Ok, now I know who you are in the most basic of terms. One of those die-hard chest-pounding Canadian Socialists. The ones who look down on (or even have deep-seeded hatred for) the Americans and suffer from that Canadian inferiority complex. The socialist way is the right way, capitalism is the root of all evil, etc, etc.

And here I pegged you for a staunch royal blue Conservative. World is full of surprises.

It is no secret here or offline that I am a hard-nosed Libertarian, so that would clash sharply with your apparent socialist ideals.


Keep guessing Aaron. I am not that transparent and you are obviously not very perceptive.
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