members complaints did the trick

For the dairy folks and/or beef folks with questions about udders, milk and mastitis.
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Re: members complaints did the trick

Postby GMN » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:26 am

I hear what you are all saying BUT DFA listened to the producers and member complaints on this issue and changed it, what does that tell you? My fieldman agreed that it was a good change. Thing is yeah we heard about this, last year, and it was supposed to be a gradual change-then wham it just happened. i dont think producers who ship higher than 400,000 are bad dairymen and woman-not evryone out there can replace their herd with 50-100 new springers every year-ya all make it sound like anyone who can't conform to less than 400,000 is a bad producer-they aren't.
I have had the PRIVLEDGE to know many a good dairy producer, all have struggles with the cell issues at one time or another-and they are not bad producers, it astounds me that ya all sit on your thrones and judge so many without knowing jack about anything-I hate to see how you react when your day comes dealing with the many unexpected things that happen on a dairy farm from year to year or day to day-
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Re: members complaints did the trick

Postby GMN » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:35 am

novaman wrote:
GMN wrote:Its a win win for everyone-

Respectfully going to disagree. It is a win for those that can't get a handle on their BTSCC. They have been trying to lower the limit for years. You make it sound like this just popped up within the past few months and blindsided you. Everyone knew this was brewing for years. I for one am glad they finally grabbed the bull by the horns. Lower SCC milk is higher quality. We should all be striving to produce the best quality product we can. With greater access to international markets we need to distinguish ourselves as a top notch supplier of dairy ingredients to get a foot in the door on these markets. If we don't somebody else will win that business and we, once again, will be on the outside looking in. We need to be more progressive in our way of thinking and not get stuck in a rut.

With cull prices as good as they are, lowering the limit should be incentive for producers to cull aggressively and remove those couple problem cows that every herd seems to have. With regular testing and keeping a close eye on things it shouldn't be tough to comply. The industry will only be better off by lowering the limit.



We all are striving to do the best we can with the herds we have-to insinuiate otherwise, makes you sound boorish.
Not everyone can just sell a cow when her cell goes up, there are many things that effect cell issues, its not ALL about mastitis. Milk companies push the lower cell rates because they get more money for the products, but WILLL we continue to see higher prices? When will the next downturn be? Then what will the excuse be for the low prices?
Fact is they pushed the CWT program, saying this would beneift all for herd buyouts, continue to keep prices high, yet prices still downturned to $10-now they want to phase that program out, pay less, and eliminate herd bouyouts altogether. Dairy farmers instead of following in whatever the milk companies decide FOR US-we all should be thinking how WE can be in control of our own pay system, and start thinking along those lines.
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Re: members complaints did the trick

Postby TexasBred » Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:23 pm

A shame that a "co-op" can be a monoply but that's what it amounts to. Might be nice to try and bid your milk out to competing companies but down this way DFA seems to be the only one around. When we dairied we toyed with getting our own milk tanker/truck rig and trying to negotiate to sell direct to one of the creameries.....DFA made sure that didn't happen.
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Re: members complaints did the trick

Postby bigbull338 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:55 am

DFA is the bull of the woods when it comes to marketing milk.i remember when AMPI got so deep in debt that they had to sell out to MIDAM.AMPI thought all of their people would run DFA an be the big boss.but MIDAM said no we are buying you out taking on your debt overloaded company an we are the boss.we all know who ended up running the company in the end MIDAMs people.AMPI wouldve went under completely if MIDAM hadnt bought them an they knew it.
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Re: members complaints did the trick

Postby novaman » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:06 am

Sorry that you took offense to my comments GMN. I'm not saying SCC is an indicator of good or bad producers. However, it is a good indication of milk quality. We can't expect to be putting mediocre quality milk in the pipeline and forget about it. Consumers domestically as well as internationally are demanding higher quality products. It would be nice to say we are going to do what we want you and you (the consumers) have to accept it. Problem is we are in the minority and in a round about way they are paying us so we are basically forced to meet their demands. Raising the bar on SCC is a step in the right direction for both consumers and producers. Don't make it sound like SCC is such a tough thing to figure out. I run my cows on a dirt lot and this time of year can get pretty sloppy. My counts always stay under 200 even when the cows themselves are not overly clean. Now most dairies are running in free stall barns. I believe there should be no excuse whatsoever that those type of operations shouldn't stay under 150 all the time just because they have a much cleaner environment than I do. The point is you can get counts down if you get things right. And yes I sell cows several cows that have SCC problems. When slaughter prices were lower a couple years back I was money ahead culling that girl because I got that money for her as well as a better premium because my BTSCC went down. It isn't always about getting as many pounds as we possibly can in the tank.
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Re: members complaints did the trick

Postby GMN » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:59 pm

Yes you can achieve the lower cell limits, for many years in a row, I was at 200,000, but stuff happens sometimes, that makes the counts higher than they should be and it does take time to get it back down.

My disagreement with this all is that DFA just pushed this thru too fast. I read an arcticle yesterday that said the cell use to be 1,500,000, it took 10 plus years to get it down to 750,000, and it will take years to acheive the 400,000 mark. it isnt a overnight fix, DFa pushed it thru, and they suffered the consequences of many angry producers.

You have the producers who milk thousands of cows, that can get away with far more, they put bad milk in the tank, but with the pounds going in, they are able to dilute bad cows, with small producers, we can't do that, so is that a fair policy for all?

Many say the SCC is not the only factor in milk quality and they are making tooo much out of it, when they should be focusing on other things.Longer shelf life-really? My fieldman said this is all about perception to the public who buys the milk, they see milk advertised low cell count, but have no idea what that even is, are they really gonna pay more for milk advertised as such? In todays economy, everyone I know, shops coupons, and shops with saving in mind, Organic came and now the fad is fading fast, as all that stuff is high $$$$
I think as producers we don't want the public to say milk is too expensive-would not be good for any of us.
Point that I was making is a free zone is a good thing, I still believe that, a person who gets 425,000 shouldn;'t lose money because they are 25,000 over-
i think we will agree to disagree on this, so no hard feelings-
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Re: members complaints did the trick

Postby GMN » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:07 pm

bigbull338 wrote:DFA is the bull of the woods when it comes to marketing milk.i remember when AMPI got so deep in debt that they had to sell out to MIDAM.AMPI thought all of their people would run DFA an be the big boss.but MIDAM said no we are buying you out taking on your debt overloaded company an we are the boss.we all know who ended up running the company in the end MIDAMs people.AMPI wouldve went under completely if MIDAM hadnt bought them an they knew it.



I started with MID AM- I liked them, there were some really nice people I dealt with, my fieldman, real down to earth, helped me out alot. They had a lab close by within 15 miles where i could take samples and they would be done the same day-then MIDAM got bought out by DFA-that lab got closed hundreds of people lost their jobs and benefits, and that caused some hard feelings.
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Re: members complaints did the trick

Postby GMN » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:09 pm

TexasBred wrote:A shame that a "co-op" can be a monoply but that's what it amounts to. Might be nice to try and bid your milk out to competing companies but down this way DFA seems to be the only one around. When we dairied we toyed with getting our own milk tanker/truck rig and trying to negotiate to sell direct to one of the creameries.....DFA made sure that didn't happen.



I always wondered how one of the dairies around here, works that, they opened their own milk bottling plant, sells to local stores, and sells the rest to DFA-wonder how that floats with DFA-as they are competing agaisnt them in a round about way.
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Re: members complaints did the trick

Postby TexasBred » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:59 pm

GMN wrote:
TexasBred wrote:A shame that a "co-op" can be a monoply but that's what it amounts to. Might be nice to try and bid your milk out to competing companies but down this way DFA seems to be the only one around. When we dairied we toyed with getting our own milk tanker/truck rig and trying to negotiate to sell direct to one of the creameries.....DFA made sure that didn't happen.



I always wondered how one of the dairies around here, works that, they opened their own milk bottling plant, sells to local stores, and sells the rest to DFA-wonder how that floats with DFA-as they are competing agaisnt them in a round about way.


I guess since they handle the milk from the cow to the store DFA can do absolutely nothing about that. However, they can refuse to handle milk that you produce and haul in your own truck "IF" they choose. You just can't shop around tho and get the best price. Brauhms (sp) I think still processes and markets their own milk. Gore Brothers here in Texas use to do the same with abou 20,000 cows. IF there is more than one coop in the area it's almost like they get together and do some price fixing so shopping doesn't improve your milk price at all. I still think eventually more and more people will and should go to using milk futures contracts to stabilize their price and miss the highs and lows in pricing.

As for quality there was a thread on here a while back about Blue Bell Ice Cream. I do know that Blue Bell has certain quality standards and only accept the highest quality milk. To get them to accept your milk is sort of like a "star in your crown". Low SCC, Low Bacteria, High Butterfat and High Protein.
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Re: members complaints did the trick

Postby GMN » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:07 pm

I like blue bell icecream, but I can only buy it when its on sale and thats not often, its the most expensive icecream out there, except for Ben and jerry's-
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Re: members complaints did the trick

Postby novaman » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:00 pm

GMN wrote:My disagreement with this all is that DFA just pushed this thru too fast. I read an arcticle yesterday that said the cell use to be 1,500,000, it took 10 plus years to get it down to 750,000, and it will take years to acheive the 400,000 mark. it isnt a overnight fix, DFa pushed it thru, and they suffered the consequences of many angry producers.

Just so this be known, DFA didn't push the SCC limit change exclusively. Many national dairy organizations and other coops were all on board for changing the limit. As far as I know, the US is the only country that has a limit of 750. I believe most are at 400 with a few being 500. Why are we dragging our feet when we are so far behind to begin with?

GMN wrote:You have the producers who milk thousands of cows, that can get away with far more, they put bad milk in the tank, but with the pounds going in, they are able to dilute bad cows, with small producers, we can't do that, so is that a fair policy for all?

I don't know many dairies that would put poor quality milk in the bulk tank, regardless of size. Large dairies still lose when bad milk goes in the tank because it does hurt the average.

GMN wrote:Many say the SCC is not the only factor in milk quality and they are making tooo much out of it, when they should be focusing on other things.Longer shelf life-really? My fieldman said this is all about perception to the public who buys the milk, they see milk advertised low cell count, but have no idea what that even is, are they really gonna pay more for milk advertised as such?

I agree SCC isn't the only factor in determining milk quality but it certainly is a big part of it. Everything I have read and heard says that fluid milk does have a longer shelf life as the SCC of the raw milk decreased. I know for certain that cheese yield increases as the SCC decreases. Since my milk goes to both the fluid and cheese markets, I strongly believe that having lower SCC is adding value to my milk. Furthermore, perception is everything with consumers. If they perceive a product to be high quality they will likely buy more of that product. I have a big problem with all these proposed supply management programs. They all focus on keeping supplies at a determined level in hopes of creating (supposedly) higher prices for the producers. Simple economics says that these efforts will never work. However, if we do things to help stimulate demand things will likely improve. Lowering the SCC limit will only help on the demand side.

GMN wrote:Point that I was making is a free zone is a good thing, I still believe that, a person who gets 425,000 shouldn;'t lose money because they are 25,000 over-

Where do we draw the line then if we allow 425 to count the same as 400? What is the problem with the current scale in which you get higher premiums the lower your SCC goes but you also get penalized more as your SCC goes up? If you were a processor and you want lower SCC milk because of the reasons mentioned above about cheese yield, etc. would you want this "free zone"? Say they give you this "free zone"? Essentially this would give incentive to having SCC levels that are only mediocre. Doesn't it make more sense to reward the producers shipping more desirable raw product? Doesn't it make sense to penalize producers shipping less desirable product?

I don't think I can agree to disagree. There are a lot of issues going on in the dairy industry and while I don't agree with some of the proposals, we should all be able to agree that changes must be made in order for the industry to once again thrive. Far too many are dragging their feet on these issues.
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Re: members complaints did the trick

Postby TexasBred » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:45 pm

GMN wrote:I like blue bell icecream, but I can only buy it when its on sale and thats not often, its the most expensive icecream out there, except for Ben and jerry's-

But GM..you get a full "half gallon". lol That's what they advertise.
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Re: members complaints did the trick

Postby GMN » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:00 am

Like I said Novaman-lets agree to disagree, I don't see the harm in a free zone-obviously DFA revised this plan for a reason, my fieldman said it was because they got bombarded with complaints from everywhere-400,000 or less is a goal, but mark my words, you will have problems somewhere down the line with your cell, and be glad for the free zone-things don't always run smoothly out in the barn-no matter what you do sometimes things happen which are unexplainable-
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Re: members complaints did the trick

Postby GMN » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:08 am

Quote:
I don't think I can agree to disagree. There are a lot of issues going on in the dairy industry and while I don't agree with some of the proposals, we should all be able to agree that changes must be made in order for the industry to once again thrive. Far too many are dragging their feet on these issues.[/quote]


I think you are stubborn, you can't even agree to disagree? Yikes-
Changes need to be made but not in these minor milk component issues its in the overall system on how we get paid that is obsolete. We make what farmers made 35 years ago, but the cost of living has risen drastically since then-thats what needs to be changed, anything else is just nit picky nonsense.

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Re: members complaints did the trick

Postby novaman » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:43 am

GMN wrote:I think you are stubborn, you can't even agree to disagree? Yikes-
Changes need to be made but not in these minor milk component issues its in the overall system on how we get paid that is obsolete. We make what farmers made 35 years ago, but the cost of living has risen drastically since then-thats what needs to be changed, anything else is just nit picky nonsense.

Am I the one being stubborn? It seems I am the one willing to accept change that will better an industry struggling to continue on. Why would I agree to accept your disagreement when dairymen with your attitude are exactly what I have to fight in order to get progressive ideas like lowering the SCC limit in place? What we get paid has no bearing on the SCC issue. There is no excuse for producing subpar milk and expecting to get paid well for it. If you want a better pay price get your somatics down. I am getting a couple dollars premium over the class III price for the milk I ship.

In my operation things run along quite smoothly. There are conductivity meters on every stall so if any cow starts having somatic issues she is immediately pulled off the line. I reiterate, with today's technologies there are no excuses to not be running good somatic levels if you are willing to admit somatics is an important issue and embrace the technology. Don't get caught spinning your wheels for too long because you might get left in the dust one day.
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