Genetic color question

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vclavin
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Genetic color question

Postby vclavin » Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:38 am

What cross on a Holstein would give you a calf that look like a milking shorthorn? The dairy guy bought this Holstein heifer already bred and was supposed to be bred Holstein - oopss.
Any ideas, could it be Jersey?
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Re: Genetic color question

Postby dun » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:52 pm

2 red factor Holsteins if they're red. A Jersey Holsten cross has a wild pinto looking paint job except for the lack of a line they look like longhorns
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Re: Genetic color question

Postby vclavin » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:52 pm

dun wrote:2 red factor Holsteins if they're red. A Jersey Holsten cross has a wild pinto looking paint job except for the lack of a line they look like longhorns

That does kinda sound like it, I'll get a pic when we get her or if I happen to stop by on way to town.
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Re: Genetic color question

Postby cow pollinater » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:53 pm

I think??? some Ayrshires carry a roan gene that shows up on black(the dominant color in holstiens) cattle. Some people confuse them with holstiens so that may be it. I've never dealt with them and I can't remember why I think that so I may very well be wrong but that's what popped into my head.
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Re: Genetic color question

Postby VanC » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:34 pm

vclavin wrote:What cross on a Holstein would give you a calf that look like a milking shorthorn? The dairy guy bought this Holstein heifer already bred and was supposed to be bred Holstein - oopss.
Any ideas, could it be Jersey?
Valerie


If the calf is red and white and the heifer was bred Holstein then I'd say dun is probably right and you have a Red Holstein. If the calf has roan in it then there's something else in there, probably Shorthorn.
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Re: Genetic color question

Postby TexasBred » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:58 pm

VanC wrote:
vclavin wrote:What cross on a Holstein would give you a calf that look like a milking shorthorn? The dairy guy bought this Holstein heifer already bred and was supposed to be bred Holstein - oopss.
Any ideas, could it be Jersey?
Valerie


If the calf is red and white and the heifer was bred Holstein then I'd say dun is probably right and you have a Red Holstein. If the calf has roan in it then there's something else in there, probably Shorthorn.

Nothing prettier than a herd of red and white holstein cattle in deep green grass. We had a small group of them when we dairied.
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Re: Genetic color question

Postby vclavin » Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:50 pm

Momma is black Holstein and heifer calf looks like a shorthorn.
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Re: Genetic color question

Postby hillsdown » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:16 pm

TexasBred wrote:
VanC wrote:
vclavin wrote:What cross on a Holstein would give you a calf that look like a milking shorthorn? The dairy guy bought this Holstein heifer already bred and was supposed to be bred Holstein - oopss.
Any ideas, could it be Jersey?
Valerie


If the calf is red and white and the heifer was bred Holstein then I'd say dun is probably right and you have a Red Holstein. If the calf has roan in it then there's something else in there, probably Shorthorn.

Nothing prettier than a herd of red and white holstein cattle in deep green grass. We had a small group of them when we dairied.


Those were Mr HD's favorite too TB.
I agree with the others that the Holstein carries the red factor. Had a set of red and white twin heifers out of a blk/wht cow that was AI'd Boy George, a red carrier bull.
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Re: Genetic color question

Postby VanC » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:59 pm

vclavin wrote:Momma is black Holstein and heifer calf looks like a shorthorn.
Valerie


Could you be more specific? Shorthorns can be solid white, solid red, red and white, or roan. All we can tell you right now is that the mother carries the red gene and passed it on to her calf.
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Re: Genetic color question

Postby VanC » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:08 pm

TexasBred wrote:Nothing prettier than a herd of red and white holstein cattle in deep green grass. We had a small group of them when we dairied.


I agree. Back when I was a teen and working on my aunt and uncle's farm we had a red bull calf born to a black Holstein. That's when I first learned of red factor cattle in Holsteins and Angus. I used to grill the AI tech about color genetics whenever he came out to the farm and we happened to be around. My uncle was going to breed that cow to a red bull to try and get a heifer but she was killed by lightning shortly after that.
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Re: Genetic color question

Postby regolith » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:10 pm

Show us a photo if you can. Red and White isn't necessarily the same as 'looks like a Shorthorn'.

CP is right about Ayrshire. Unless there's an awful lot of red factor hiding among NZ cows... the cross over b + w often comes out red. I've been told Ayrshire over Jersey is sometimes straight black (but I've got some small solid red cows bred that way)
HFxJ can be red and white or red, but usually isn't a first cross in those colours.

Any opinions from you overseas dairy cows on whether the red and white gene in Holsteins is linked to increased hardiness? I've seen that claim made in support of the red breeds including red holstein.
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Re: Genetic color question

Postby hillsdown » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:24 pm

regolith wrote:Show us a photo if you can. Red and White isn't necessarily the same as 'looks like a Shorthorn'.

CP is right about Ayrshire. Unless there's an awful lot of red factor hiding among NZ cows... the cross over b + w often comes out red. I've been told Ayrshire over Jersey is sometimes straight black (but I've got some small solid red cows bred that way)
HFxJ can be red and white or red, but usually isn't a first cross in those colours.

Any opinions from you overseas dairy cows on whether the red and white gene in Holsteins is linked to increased hardiness? I've seen that claim made in support of the red breeds including red holstein.


Nope ,found them a little more fragile especially the calves. Some dairy guys cull just because they are red .. Sound familiar . :roll:
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Re: Genetic color question

Postby TexasBred » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:29 am

True HD....and as far as milking it seems they either milk extremely well or very poorly...no in between.
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Re: Genetic color question

Postby regolith » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:36 pm

Now that's interesting. I was suspecting that the notion that a colour gene was linked to other traits might be imaginative. They're pretty enough, if nothing else.

*sorry I can't edit my last post. I prefer to conceal the fact that i can't tell the difference between cattle and people. You won't tell??
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Re: Genetic color question

Postby vclavin » Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:21 pm

Sorry about the description, lack of that is. She is red and white and has the pattern of the milking shorthorn but I guess I thought that as she is red/white and not black/white. I guess that makes it a little harder to tell ancestry. Next time I go to that dairy, I'll get a pic if she's where there's good light. They keep them locked up in sheds with no pasture to roam, probably why they are not keeping any as I remember he told me they had no extra pasture.
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