metritis

For the dairy folks and/or beef folks with questions about udders, milk and mastitis.
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Nesikep
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Re: metritis

Postby Nesikep » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:50 pm

electricity's out and you're on the net??? "Now we're surfing the net with gas" :P

Interesting about the minerals you're high in... S is antagonistic to Copper, and if you have a high Ca AND a low P rate, your ratio is WAY off... I can't remember the Ca:P ratio in your PKE though, wheat should help it out however
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Re: metritis

Postby regolith » Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:02 pm

battery. Laptop lasts an hour or two after the electricty gives out. Yeah, I've been trying to find some old soil test from previous farms but I'm starting to think I might have left all paperwork for the incoming sharemilkers and not kept any copies for myself. I think the high K farm I was on before was low Ca, moderate P, high Mg.
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Re: metritis

Postby TexasBred » Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:27 am

regolith wrote:battery. Laptop lasts an hour or two after the electricty gives out. Yeah, I've been trying to find some old soil test from previous farms but I'm starting to think I might have left all paperwork for the incoming sharemilkers and not kept any copies for myself. I think the high K farm I was on before was low Ca, moderate P, high Mg.

The lower calcium should actually be beneficial for your dry cows but the high potassium could lead to some problems with milk fever. I know you're dairy is organic or "semi organic" but can you give injections of vitamin E and selenium (Bo-Se or Mu-Se) ??
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Re: metritis

Postby regolith » Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:35 pm

Yes, though I try to minimise such injections because it's unpleasant for the cows. I put selenium in the drench mix (they expect to be drenched if I walk in front of them in the milking shed, not jabbed in the neck).

That's the farm the herd were on 2006 - 2009, and we did have big milk fever problems there... interestingly, the selenium went on the pasture every year in the fertiliser but the second calving there the cows tested very low and I did have to inject them as well. The current farm is very low in P and high in every other mineral tested for.
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Re: metritis

Postby Nesikep » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:08 am

I think working several different acreages makes it harder to diagnose problems as each has it's own set of problems.

What about jabbing them in the butt? that's how I give most of our cows their shots (except antibiotics)
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Re: metritis

Postby regolith » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:01 am

Not a bad idea Nesi... the vets can usually jab them in the rump when they're lined up in the milking shed, but I'm not tall enough. I've been putting them all through the AI race a few times though, good way to get all tails trimmed and tailpaint touched up.
The jab still stings, but it's doing it when they're expecting drenched that I really don't like, don't want them getting wary of being drenched.

I'll be trying to catch up with my vet this week anyway, don't know if he'll have any answers for me but I don't believe that cow I lost the other day died of legume bloat. The calf I had posted and diagnosed with clostridia looked an awful lot like that, and died just as suddenly. Still worried about salmonella (which was a possible diagnosis for the calf) but the cow didn't look like the calf did inside (calf was all purple and black veins in stomach and guts).
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Re: metritis

Postby TexasBred » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:50 am

regolith wrote:Yes, though I try to minimise such injections because it's unpleasant for the cows. I put selenium in the drench mix (they expect to be drenched if I walk in front of them in the milking shed, not jabbed in the neck).

That's the farm the herd were on 2006 - 2009, and we did have big milk fever problems there... interestingly, the selenium went on the pasture every year in the fertiliser but the second calving there the cows tested very low and I did have to inject them as well. The current farm is very low in P and high in every other mineral tested for.

Not nearly as unpleasant as dealing with an ongoing infection.
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Re: metritis

Postby regolith » Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:06 pm

okay, get that point... but for a mineral that they're getting orally and blood testing at optimum levels?
If I wanted to go that route, after all, they could be getting regular injections of minerals, vaccines, b12... some farmers reckon inject b12 every three weeks or so. I value placid cattle and usually take vet advice regarding what vaccines/minerals to use. The vets consistently advise only using what has been a problem in the past... I'm going to have to talk to the vet about rotavirus again because last time I asked he said he wouldn't advise it for next year, meantime every calf scoured and most suffered a consequent growth check. Knowing that, I'd be surprised if his advice doesn't change when I ask again (yes, he does know that, I made sure he saw the impact on their growth when we were dehorning them).
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Re: metritis

Postby regolith » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:23 am

taking one thing at a time with the vet... to call them asap for a post mortem if I lose another, but keep drenching for bloat meantime because it can't be ruled out.
He reckons we can get a useful culture from subclinical mastitis cows, so with the four I've found recently and the mastitis samples I've already chucked in the freezer should get a useful idea what bugs I'm dealing with now. I'll take those samples and another water sample in for analysis in the next few days.

And then I read on here that licky cows are healthy cows... dang, you better tell my cows that because that's what drives me mental when I tell them you gotta GO so the next row can be milked and they just want to stop and lick under their legs or their bellies. No lass, do that in the paddock please, not in the shed.
"2 calves for BVD testing?" That was funny, I'd forgotten there were three. "Oh yeah, I sold one of them because of attitude. The one that kept taking you for a ride" He remembered. Heaps of extra sedative and the calf still kept getting up and running away the day he was dehorned.
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Re: metritis

Postby TexasBred » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:59 pm

regolith wrote:okay, get that point... but for a mineral that they're getting orally and blood testing at optimum levels?
If I wanted to go that route, after all, they could be getting regular injections of minerals, vaccines, b12... some farmers reckon inject b12 every three weeks or so. I value placid cattle and usually take vet advice regarding what vaccines/minerals to use. The vets consistently advise only using what has been a problem in the past... I'm going to have to talk to the vet about rotavirus again because last time I asked he said he wouldn't advise it for next year, meantime every calf scoured and most suffered a consequent growth check. Knowing that, I'd be surprised if his advice doesn't change when I ask again (yes, he does know that, I made sure he saw the impact on their growth when we were dehorning them).

Oh I wouldn't even consider giving injections that often but always did give mine a shot of A/D as well as Mu-Se or Bo-Se at drying off and at freshening. A booster so to speak and then make the loose mineral available for both dry and lactating cattle.
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Re: metritis

Postby Nesikep » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:23 pm

if you're having a lot of calf scours, look at "Scourgard" vaccines, that is the *only* vaccine we use (just about that time of year for us too), the calf gets the antibodies in the colostrum... It's saved our behinds many times now... we rarely have scours since we've used it, while before we had about 35% of calves scouring, and THAT is no fun either
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Re: metritis

Postby regolith » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:40 pm

Will do.
Finding some interesting things researching the low P issue by google... never heard of it being a problem but there's studies showing that NZ cows do drop below recommended minimum levels regularly, apparently without symptoms. The first symptom is infertility... I'm thinking maybe that was causing problems in the herd I worked with last year while my cows were leased out (I have photos, the herd also had very dull coats) but we fed PKE throughout so I'd have thought that would have been enough to mask the symptoms.

Here's a new issue. It's four and a half weeks since I stopped AI and turned the bulls in with the herd, took the bulls out a few days ago and then AI'd another four cows before quitting for the year.
Fourteen of the first eighteen cows the bulls serviced just over 3 - 4 1/2 weeks ago have returned to heat. Yet apparently the AI cows mated earlier are holding. I'll go back through my records and check the conception rate for the bulls while I was doing AI - I knew it wasn't high, but they were mating cows on their first heat after calving and I usually caught the return when they were back in the main herd. They certainly did settle some.
If there was ever such a thing as a 'good' year to have a high open rate this is it, so I'm not too worried. An eight-week calving next year wouldn't be a bad thing.
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Re: metritis

Postby Nesikep » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:14 am

It would definitely appear to me that *something* is up, but i'm all out of ideas now.

Strange that the cows the bulls serviced are coming back into heat too... I'm assuming that the bull shave been semen tested at some point? how many bulls are there?
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Re: metritis

Postby regolith » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:57 am

Two bulls, no dominance issues, both served most cows that came on.
I had something similar happen a few years back, extended the mating season and went back to doing AI and decided that was the last time I would run a solo bull with the herd. I'm not doing that this time... mating's over, the AI cows aren't cycling, the fact that 14 of the 18 are suggests to me that the cows are showing good healthy cycles so I needn't worry about the ones that aren't.
The bulls' owners don't guarantee fertility and do general checks like scrotum measurement but I don't think any semen test (it's in the contract what they did). I doubt this is the bulls' fault though, the metritis cows have all cycled in the last three weeks, another two cows are daughters to a bull known for throwing infertile daughters... it could simply be that the leftovers weren't going to get in calf anyway.
Neither bull has been sick or lame at any point either, a *big* relief, and they've averaged about 1 - 1 1/2 cows a day between them so haven't been overworked.
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Re: metritis

Postby Nesikep » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:16 pm

Well, in my problem cow this year she was cycling just fine, she'd be serviced by both bulls, but wouldn't settle, or if she did, the fetus would die after a couple days (a couple times there was a 30ish day span between heats), so just because they're cycling doesn't mean they don't have metritis anymore
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