incoming outgoing heifers and one different breed

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regolith
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incoming outgoing heifers and one different breed

Postby regolith » Tue May 01, 2012 4:36 pm

The baby heifers left for their grazier on Friday:
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on the truck that brought the in-calf heifers back to me
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Nine of these heifers are from my own cows while they were on lease. Twenty I bought from a retiring farmer; a high index, "Premier Sires"-bred line of exceptionally well grown calves at four months old.

Now this one pictured is something a bit different. She was born on one of the farms I'd leased cows to, and they told me she was a Simmental and out of a cow I'd put in calf to shorthorn. Unless I was pulling random straws out at mating the previous year, or she's out of one of their own cows... I think she's a Montbeliard out of my cow 31, who was due at around the same time as the other cow. I DNA-profiled 31 last spring so I can get a sample off this heifer to match. If she's not 31's calf... well, I haven't a clue.
She weighed in at 580 kg last Thursday at the grazier's, the whole group averaging 450 kg at 21 months old. She might be the heaviest they've ever raised... but they look at her and call her Hereford, which would mean she wasn't related to any of my cows (the farm she came from does use Hereford, both AI and natural). I had Simmental and Montbeliard in my AI bank, don't think any Hereford bulls could have got close enough to my cows to have babies.


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ANAZAZI
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Re: incoming outgoing heifers and one different breed

Postby ANAZAZI » Tue May 01, 2012 6:32 pm

She does look like a simmenthal cross to me, and far from a hereford type. Montbelliard originally came from simmenthals, they were just selected differently.
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Re: incoming outgoing heifers and one different breed

Postby bigbull338 » Tue May 01, 2012 6:41 pm

you have bunch of nice looking heifers there.
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Re: incoming outgoing heifers and one different breed

Postby ANAZAZI » Tue May 01, 2012 6:43 pm

bigbull338 wrote:you have bunch of nice looking heifers there.


She sure has!
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Re: incoming outgoing heifers and one different breed

Postby cow pollinater » Wed May 02, 2012 3:27 pm

You mean you had a semen mix up and now you don't know what the sire id is??? Glad you don't breed for me... I'd have to fire you over it. That crap won't cut it here. :lol:

She is sim or motbellaird for sure. I'd have a hard time calling her a hereford.
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Re: incoming outgoing heifers and one different breed

Postby regolith » Wed May 02, 2012 11:02 pm

I couldn't call her hereford either but it amazes me the experienced farmers/vets who do. And the cross to dairy whips a lot of the standard white markings off, so it can be a bit harder...

Well, maybe I did get it wrong cp. But I know I put Paganini (montbeliard) into 31, Jinny's Empire into the cow they told me had this heifer (25? I think it was) and Brown Swiss into number 3. The manager who had number 3 claims he never saw a Brown Swiss calf anywhere and a hereford (who I said no thanks to) was hers. Another farm had a pure Jersey calf recorded as out of the crossbred cow 19 who I'd put in calf to Angus. Thank goodness Leonie looks like both her dam and sire so I know there's no mistake there!!
It might be a few months before I do the DNA test, but that will clear it up for sure. 31 was the only cow that farm had in-calf to Montbeliard and the one in-calf to Sim hadn't calved when I first saw this heifer.
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Re: incoming outgoing heifers and one different breed

Postby piedmontese » Thu May 03, 2012 12:22 am

why do u use so many different breeds? around me most of the dairys are holstein and the only time they cross is with heifers and then they will go angus.
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Re: incoming outgoing heifers and one different breed

Postby regolith » Thu May 03, 2012 12:38 am

trying to build a perfect 3waycross :D
The thread I posted on indexes in this forum might highlight the situation a little more. NZ dairy breeding is dominated by pursuing the 'BW' index with the consequence that smaller genetic populations (not Holstein or Jersey) and overseas genetics are highly penalised. So no-one uses them. So I can't go to the farmer next door and say "Hey, have you tried x bull? How did he work out?" ... this is groundbreaking stuff.
EPDs on overseas bulls mean nothing when moved to such a vastly different environment, the only way to know if something will work is to try it, or find someone local who's tried it. I favour Brown Swiss, have tried it, will keep using it but I also want a outcross breed that is safe to use on a smaller crossbred cow.
Evidently, the real reason is to confuse farmers who take in my cows on lease.
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Re: incoming outgoing heifers and one different breed

Postby Till-Hill » Thu May 03, 2012 10:40 am

We run a 85% registered holstein herd but hard breeder cows get bred to Jersey, Swiss, Milking Shorthorn, Ayreshire, and Norweigan Red. All them resulting crosses get bred to a different breed sire. Love my Norweigan Red x Jersey x Holstein. Swiss x Holstein best F1's. The Jersey x Swiss x Holstein I still don't know about. One that don't milk enough to feed the cats and had a few other ones with meat bags. Been using Milking Shorthorn on them to soften them up.

Last 3 years our x-bred cows have had over 100 lbs more fat and 30 lbs more protein and weigh about 250 lbs less that our registered holsteins. And the x-bred average 1.6 services conception while registered holstein are 2.8 services. I am not a 100% sold right now but when a cow gets to 3rd service they get bred to a different breed. And on them I always try to find as much red/polled bulls as I can to hopefully make a grazer herd out of them someday and not have to deal with horns!
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Re: incoming outgoing heifers and one different breed

Postby cow pollinater » Thu May 03, 2012 5:24 pm

regolith wrote:Well, maybe I did get it wrong cp.

Not to brag or anything... but, percentage wise that makes you WAAAAY worse than me and my charolais calves. :lol:

Have you had calving problems with the swiss? Alot of people assume they have big calves but here in the US they're all calving ease but they grow like weeds.
As far as a three way cross, Jersey, holstien, and swedish or norweigan red is the most common here but they're geared towards tmr and high production.
I've often thought that if I were in a similar situation to yours I'd add in some Normande.
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Re: incoming outgoing heifers and one different breed

Postby regolith » Thu May 03, 2012 5:49 pm

...and some of those managers who identified those calves are no longer in the job...

Yep, re calving problems with Brown Swiss. The Holstein/Brown Swiss cross is what I worked with back in Scotland and I don't recall any calving problems then but though I haven't pulled any, the BS calves out of my cows are larger than any other calf born to the herd and sometimes the cow looks a bit beat-up and not too interested in loving this calf. I found one of my good Friesians with a dead monster and calving paralysis, I'm guessing that calf might have been close to 60 kg and she never did get back in calf.
My cows are a lot smaller than the ones I worked with in Scotland, or the US Holstein. So the ideal outcross would be a similar size, hitting 450 - 500 kg (up to 1100 lb). BS are closer to 550 - 600 kg.
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Re: incoming outgoing heifers and one different breed

Postby 2/B or not 2/B » Thu May 03, 2012 8:05 pm

Beautiful group of girls! I especially like the odd one out. I hope they work really well for you.
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Re: incoming outgoing heifers and one different breed

Postby GMN » Sun May 06, 2012 3:31 pm

i like the dairy corsses myself, higher in butterfat, and it makes for a more intersting herd
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