Smoking elk?

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hillbilly beef man
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Smoking elk?

Postby hillbilly beef man » Tue May 09, 2017 7:25 am

Has anyone ever tried to smoke an elk roast? I was given several 4-5 lb already frozen roasts. I need to fix one this weekend to feed a crowd and was thinking about smoking it, but I am concerned that elk would be too lean to stay moist. The last couple i have fixed I just cut them into inch thick steaks and grilled those and then rolled the trimmings in seasoned flour and fried them. This worked, but i am just looking at other options.
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Re: Smoking elk?

Postby Jogeephus » Tue May 09, 2017 5:40 pm

Its been a long time since I cooked any elk but I do a lot of venison and it can be dry if its not done right. I don't think you could go wrong brining it. Brining will relax the protein bonds and allow more moisture to enter the meat so when you start cooking it there will be more moisture to begin with but you can still over cook it and it can be dry. Wrapping in bacon would help.

If it were me and I really wanted to make something juicy and tasty I don't think I'd smoke it but only sear it on the grill. How I'd go about doing this would be to brine it first then season the meat and place it in a plastic bag and poach it in water that is 145-150F till the internal temp reaches this point. Probably take 2-3 hours. Once this is done, remove the meat from the bag and save the juices in the bag - there won't be much but its like gold - then sear the roast on a grill just long enough to get some good color on the outside then drizzle the juices from the bag over the seared roast. I think your guests will be amazed.
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Re: Smoking elk?

Postby wacocowboy » Wed May 10, 2017 12:13 am

I've never cooked elk. I have a buddy who use to like to smoke a deer leg. When he cooked pork he would put a pan under it to collect the juice and then when he cooked the deer leg he would inject the pork juices in it. I don't know how much or how often or anything just I tasted amazing. Good luck hope you get it done. I wish I had some elk or venison.
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Re: Smoking elk?

Postby boondocks » Wed May 10, 2017 2:16 am

Jogeephus wrote:Its been a long time since I cooked any elk but I do a lot of venison and it can be dry if its not done right. I don't think you could go wrong brining it. Brining will relax the protein bonds and allow more moisture to enter the meat so when you start cooking it there will be more moisture to begin with but you can still over cook it and it can be dry. Wrapping in bacon would help.

If it were me and I really wanted to make something juicy and tasty I don't think I'd smoke it but only sear it on the grill. How I'd go about doing this would be to brine it first then season the meat and place it in a plastic bag and poach it in water that is 145-150F till the internal temp reaches this point. Probably take 2-3 hours. Once this is done, remove the meat from the bag and save the juices in the bag - there won't be much but its like gold - then sear the roast on a grill just long enough to get some good color on the outside then drizzle the juices from the bag over the seared roast. I think your guests will be amazed.


somewhere there's a microbiology professor having a stroke.... :lol:
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Re: Smoking elk?

Postby Bright Raven » Wed May 10, 2017 6:00 am

boondocks wrote:
Jogeephus wrote:Its been a long time since I cooked any elk but I do a lot of venison and it can be dry if its not done right. I don't think you could go wrong brining it. Brining will relax the protein bonds and allow more moisture to enter the meat so when you start cooking it there will be more moisture to begin with but you can still over cook it and it can be dry. Wrapping in bacon would help.

If it were me and I really wanted to make something juicy and tasty I don't think I'd smoke it but only sear it on the grill. How I'd go about doing this would be to brine it first then season the meat and place it in a plastic bag and poach it in water that is 145-150F till the internal temp reaches this point. Probably take 2-3 hours. Once this is done, remove the meat from the bag and save the juices in the bag - there won't be much but its like gold - then sear the roast on a grill just long enough to get some good color on the outside then drizzle the juices from the bag over the seared roast. I think your guests will be amazed.


somewhere there's a microbiology professor having a stroke.... :lol:


Funny! But -Naw (Kentucky socially acceptable way to say, you are DEAD WRONG) . :D It has been brined. That is going to knock down the microbe count. 2 to 3 hours is not very long.

Forgot to say: seasoning is also antimicrobial. Did you know that some anthropologist believe that the art of seasoning meat was originally started as a means of preserving meat? It is also postulated that early man often was forced to eat spoiled food. Seasonings were used to cover up the spoiled odors and taste.
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Re: Smoking elk?

Postby Alan » Wed May 10, 2017 9:38 am

Jogeephus wrote:If it were me and I really wanted to make something juicy and tasty I don't think I'd smoke it but only sear it on the grill. How I'd go about doing this would be to brine it first then season the meat and place it in a plastic bag and poach it in water that is 145-150F till the internal temp reaches this point. Probably take 2-3 hours. Once this is done, remove the meat from the bag and save the juices in the bag - there won't be much but its like gold - then sear the roast on a grill just long enough to get some good color on the outside then drizzle the juices from the bag over the seared roast. I think your guests will be amazed.


That sounds fantastic Jo, I recently ruined a London broil in the smoker. Had the smoking temp and int temp good, It was just so lean i couldn't hardly chew it. So onto the slicer and it became a descent French dips for a couple of days. Would this method be considered "Sous-vide"? I haven't tried it yet but seems to be more folks doing it lately. I will certainly try your suggestion.

Alan
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Re: Smoking elk?

Postby Jogeephus » Wed May 10, 2017 9:48 am

It is the sous vide Alan. Used correctly it works magic on lean meats. I use it for a lot of things.

boondocks wrote:somewhere there's a microbiology professor having a stroke.... :lol:


If they know anything about the subject I seriously doubt that.

True, my suggestion would appear unsafe by USDA guidelines but these guidelines are put in place for general public because the USDA knows general public isn't very savvy when it comes to connecting the dots so they give extremely conservative recommendations on how to cook meat which results in overcooked dry meat. But it will make a turd and you won't get sick so no harm done. However, if you want to show some respect for the animal that gave its life for your meal and you desire something more than a dry piece of protein then there are better ways to approach this.

Chicken breasts are a prime example. They are lean and alkaloid making them a ripe environment for pathogen growth. The USDA suggests cooking them to 165F. At 165F the proteins constrict forcing what little flavor and moisture out resulting in a dry, tasteless piece meat suitable only for turd manufacturing. Granted, at 165F salmonella is killed instantly. However, if the same breast is cooked to 145F and held there for 9 minutes all the salmonella will be dead. At 150F its dead in 2 minutes. I suspect a microbiologist would agree dead salmonella isn't any more dead at one temperature than the next. I mean, dead is dead. Right?

Of course you may be referring to the risk of botulism by putting the meat in an airtight bag. This is a valid concern because botulism is deadly and should be given the utmost respect. But I'm sure a microbiologist knows botulism grows best in a temp range of 78-95F so its extremely important not to have bagged meat sitting on your counter at room temperature. However, my recommendation calls for removing the roast from the brine then bagging and then placing in 145-150F water. I'm sure a microbiologist knows that botulism growth stalls at 118F and at temperatures exceeding 140F it cannot form its deadly toxin so there is no risk of this.

Since my recommendation has fully pasteurized the meat and all pathogens are dead, the result will be an extremely tender roast containing three times the moisture you would have if you followed USDA guidelines. Also, the magic of brining could possibly even make the roast contain as much if not more moisture than it had in its original form but more importantly you will enjoy the benefits of understanding microbiology and meat science and you will give your diners a great meal and give the animal the respect it deserves.

However, if these things seem to complicated then I'd surely just follow the USDA guidelines because odds are you won't get sick and it will make a turd.

Here is an eye of round from a whitetail done this way. No brine used just a spice rub.

Image
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Re: Smoking elk?

Postby Bright Raven » Wed May 10, 2017 11:43 am

Jogeephus wrote:It is the sous vide Alan. Used correctly it works magic on lean meats. I use it for a lot of things.

boondocks wrote:somewhere there's a microbiology professor having a stroke.... :lol:


If they know anything about the subject I seriously doubt that.

True, my suggestion would appear unsafe by USDA guidelines but these guidelines are put in place for general public because the USDA knows general public isn't very savvy when it comes to connecting the dots so they give extremely conservative recommendations on how to cook meat which results in overcooked dry meat. But it will make a turd and you won't get sick so no harm done. However, if you want to show some respect for the animal that gave its life for your meal and you desire something more than a dry piece of protein then there are better ways to approach this.

Chicken breasts are a prime example. They are lean and alkaloid making them a ripe environment for pathogen growth. The USDA suggests cooking them to 165F. At 165F the proteins constrict forcing what little flavor and moisture out resulting in a dry, tasteless piece meat suitable only for turd manufacturing. Granted, at 165F salmonella is killed instantly. However, if the same breast is cooked to 145F and held there for 9 minutes all the salmonella will be dead. At 150F its dead in 2 minutes. I suspect a microbiologist would agree dead salmonella isn't any more dead at one temperature than the next. I mean, dead is dead. Right?

Of course you may be referring to the risk of botulism by putting the meat in an airtight bag. This is a valid concern because botulism is deadly and should be given the utmost respect. But I'm sure a microbiologist knows botulism grows best in a temp range of 78-95F so its extremely important not to have bagged meat sitting on your counter at room temperature. However, my recommendation calls for removing the roast from the brine then bagging and then placing in 145-150F water. I'm sure a microbiologist knows that botulism growth stalls at 118F and at temperatures exceeding 140F it cannot form its deadly toxin so there is no risk of this.

Since my recommendation has fully pasteurized the meat and all pathogens are dead, the result will be an extremely tender roast containing three times the moisture you would have if you followed USDA guidelines. Also, the magic of brining could possibly even make the roast contain as much if not more moisture than it had in its original form but more importantly you will enjoy the benefits of understanding microbiology and meat science and you will give your diners a great meal and give the animal the respect it deserves.

However, if these things seem to complicated then I'd surely just follow the USDA guidelines because odds are you won't get sick and it will make a turd.



For me , Not too complicated, just too lazy. I do enjoy reading and thinking about your cooking but I can do that sitting in my recliner. :cowboy:

BTW: have you ever had rattlesnake? A friend and I caught some prairie rattlers in Montana. Cut them up and grilled them on the BBQ grill after soaking them in a marinade. NO IT DID NOT TASTE LIKE CHICKEN. More like frog legs.

Question: Did we pay them enough respect?

Lol
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Re: Smoking elk?

Postby Jogeephus » Wed May 10, 2017 3:57 pm

I'll cook snake whenever I can and actually have some in the freezer. Your description of it tasting like frog legs is pretty accurate. The best snake dish I ever had was cooked in a white sauce and served over noodles. This recipe came from an Extension pamphlet and it was really good.

You are too lazy?!?! I think you are making it to complicated because this is the lazy man's way to cook. Toss the bag in a crock pot enjoy a drink and relax because there is no time pressure trying to match your smoke time with the timing of the meal. When everything else is about ready you simply take the meat out and sear and serve and people will wonder how such a drunkard could cook so well.
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Re: Smoking elk?

Postby Bright Raven » Wed May 10, 2017 3:58 pm

Jogeephus wrote:I'll cook snake whenever I can and actually have some in the freezer. Your description of it tasting like frog legs is pretty accurate. The best snake dish I ever had was cooked in a white sauce and served over noodles. This recipe came from an Extension pamphlet and it was really good.

You are too lazy?!?! I think you are making it to complicated because this is the lazy man's way to cook. Toss the bag in a crock pot enjoy a drink and relax because there is no time pressure trying to match your smoke time with the timing of the meal. When everything else is about ready you simply take the meat out and sear and serve and people will wonder how such a drunkard could cook so well.


Lol
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