So ashamed. I forgot all about Earth Day.

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TexasBred
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Re: So ashamed. I forgot all about Earth Day.

Postby TexasBred » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:50 pm

Bestoutwest wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote: Alternative power isn't cost effective and I sure don't want to pay what Canadians pay for fuel.


Alternative energy can produce clean, affordable electricity, but the startup costs are enormous (same with Nuclear, which is too bad b/c it's very clean, safe, and powerful). My wife works for a university that does a lot of work with wind, and tidal, turbine technology. One of the big problems is that no one wants it in their backyards, including the people who complain about nuclear and coal. Also, people get after it b/c a few birds are too stupid to not get caught in it. Also, we could retrain all the folks who have lost their jobs from coal being shutdown, and give them jobs manufacturing and repairing alternative fuel equipment.

Don't know that much about it but seems to be a very small window between minimum and maximum winds for effective use of wind turbines and many sit idle for days because of not enough wind or excessive wind. Maybe technology needs to catch up to make it effective and economical.
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Re: So ashamed. I forgot all about Earth Day.

Postby True Grit Farms » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:01 pm

Don't leave solar out TB, when the sun isn't shinning there's not power being made either. Solar and wind power need subsidies from the oil, gas and coal industry's. Subsidizing folks is un - American, if you can't make it on your own shame on you.
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Re: So ashamed. I forgot all about Earth Day.

Postby 1wlimo » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:25 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:Don't leave solar out TB, when the sun isn't shinning there's not power being made either. Solar and wind power need subsidies from the oil, gas and coal industry's. Subsidizing folks is un - American, if you can't make it on your own shame on you.


subsidy like the banks, automotive, and farming you mean?

While solar and wind have issues with supplies so does coal. it cost a lot of money and takes a lot of time to run a coal or nuclear fired power station up or down. What is required is smart meters that use the power that is in excess to pump water etc, and not use it in times of high demand.

Solar and wind have a great place, and do not require a lot of subside, and any one who keeps knocking them seams to like looking after the big companies that want to control every thing we do.
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Re: So ashamed. I forgot all about Earth Day.

Postby Bestoutwest » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:29 pm

TexasBred wrote:Don't know that much about it but seems to be a very small window between minimum and maximum winds for effective use of wind turbines and many sit idle for days because of not enough wind or excessive wind. Maybe technology needs to catch up to make it effective and economical.


A lot of the costs associated with this, as far as I understand it, is that you need a pretty substantial battery system to harness the power. As far as economical, I'm not sure we're really going to have a choice. It's like vehicles, they used to be cheaper b/c there were a lot more mechanical parts but now that they contain a lot more computers the price has gone without us having the choice to accept or decline those upgrades.

What we really need are 2 things: 1) a decrease in the surplus population on the planet and 2) less people reliant on mechanized equipment (including computers and phones).
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Re: So ashamed. I forgot all about Earth Day.

Postby 1wlimo » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:32 pm

Jogeephus wrote:What's right for them is fine by me as long as they pay for it and I don't. I've always felt stupidity and slothfulness should be painful but today many are not accountable for their actions and every child gets a trophy when in reality this is not the case.

Speaking of Africa, when I was a boy I remember seeing commercials on television asking for money to feed the hungry. Who was the compassionate one, the person who sent money to feed these people so they could have a passel of children whose faces you now see on television with their starving children or the one who didn't send any money and let nature take its course?

The point was, I think, is we need to do what is right for our children and grandchildren. Do we leave them broke by wasting money on an empty turtle hole or do we employ common sense and weigh the costs of our actions against the outcome. Though not often talked about this type logic through the use of the MaxMin program is what helped us combat the Nazis in WWII. It seems today all we do is club an issue with a duffle bag full of money and hope for the best and hope we don't offend someone.


I struggle with this one. Give the person a bowl of food and he eats today, give him a hoe and he can eat tomorrow, but when our government was acting behind the curtain to create the war so he can not plant his crop, then maybe we should be feeding him.
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Re: So ashamed. I forgot all about Earth Day.

Postby TexasBred » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:56 pm

Bestoutwest wrote:
TexasBred wrote:Don't know that much about it but seems to be a very small window between minimum and maximum winds for effective use of wind turbines and many sit idle for days because of not enough wind or excessive wind. Maybe technology needs to catch up to make it effective and economical.


A lot of the costs associated with this, as far as I understand it, is that you need a pretty substantial battery system to harness the power. As far as economical, I'm not sure we're really going to have a choice. It's like vehicles, they used to be cheaper b/c there were a lot more mechanical parts but now that they contain a lot more computers the price has gone without us having the choice to accept or decline those upgrades.

What we really need are 2 things: 1) a decrease in the surplus population on the planet and 2) less people reliant on mechanized equipment (including computers and phones).

Not too concerned about the cost. Just the ineffectiveness of it. Wind blowing like he// but too much for the turbines. As I said a very small window for effectiveness. Need to find a way to enlarge that window and have them operate even with lower speed wind but more especially redesign them to handle much stronger winds to utilize the electricity. Use to have a huge power line crossing my place supposedly moving wind created electricity from west Texas to central Texas.
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Re: So ashamed. I forgot all about Earth Day.

Postby Dave » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:44 pm

Nesikep wrote:The way I see it is that the irresponsibility of some leads to the overregulation of everyone.. Logging, Mining, Farming, Fishing, you name it.. it's the corporate culture of maximizing profits above all else until someone comes along and lays down the law, usually in an overbearing fashion.. If logging companies didn't need to replant what they logged they certainly wouldn't, and unfortunately, if some people weren't told not to drain the engine oil next to a creek, they would.


This is not always correct. I know that here Weyerhauser has very big nurseries growing hundreds of thousands seedling every year for planting their logged over ground decades before there was a law requiring them to plant. It made good business sense.
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Re: So ashamed. I forgot all about Earth Day.

Postby TexasBred » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:47 am

Nesikep wrote:The way I see it is that the irresponsibility of some leads to the overregulation of everyone.. Logging, Mining, Farming, Fishing, you name it.. it's the corporate culture of maximizing profits above all else until someone comes along and lays down the law, usually in an overbearing fashion.. If logging companies didn't need to replant what they logged they certainly wouldn't, and unfortunately, if some people weren't told not to drain the engine oil next to a creek, they would.

Of the 2.3 billion seedlings planted annually, nearly 55 percent were planted by the forest products industry.  Tree farmers and other non-industrial private landowners planted another 28 percent of the total.  The rest were planted by federal, state and local agencies. Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Oregon and Washington are the leading tree-planting states, in that order
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Re: So ashamed. I forgot all about Earth Day.

Postby Nesikep » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:02 am

Dave wrote:
Nesikep wrote:The way I see it is that the irresponsibility of some leads to the overregulation of everyone.. Logging, Mining, Farming, Fishing, you name it.. it's the corporate culture of maximizing profits above all else until someone comes along and lays down the law, usually in an overbearing fashion.. If logging companies didn't need to replant what they logged they certainly wouldn't, and unfortunately, if some people weren't told not to drain the engine oil next to a creek, they would.


This is not always correct. I know that here Weyerhauser has very big nurseries growing hundreds of thousands seedling every year for planting their logged over ground decades before there was a law requiring them to plant. It made good business sense.

Some do, some don't.. nevertheless, the ones that don't spoil it for the ones who are responsible and clean up (or prevent) the messes in the first place
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Re: So ashamed. I forgot all about Earth Day.

Postby Jogeephus » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:14 am

In the early 90's Weyerhauser had the largest nursery operation in the country. Don't know if that is still the case.

I don't know of any laws that require replanting trees but all the companies here do it. Only law I know of is one where the landowner has to clearcut all their trees to give the government their half so they can fund the government and fund agencies to regulate and encourage people to plant trees. :???:
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Re: So ashamed. I forgot all about Earth Day.

Postby TexasBred » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:28 pm

Nesikep wrote:
Dave wrote:
Nesikep wrote:The way I see it is that the irresponsibility of some leads to the overregulation of everyone.. Logging, Mining, Farming, Fishing, you name it.. it's the corporate culture of maximizing profits above all else until someone comes along and lays down the law, usually in an overbearing fashion.. If logging companies didn't need to replant what they logged they certainly wouldn't, and unfortunately, if some people weren't told not to drain the engine oil next to a creek, they would.


This is not always correct. I know that here Weyerhauser has very big nurseries growing hundreds of thousands seedling every year for planting their logged over ground decades before there was a law requiring them to plant. It made good business sense.

Some do, some don't.. nevertheless, the ones that don't spoil it for the ones who are responsible and clean up (or prevent) the messes in the first place

Must be a Canadian thing. I'd guess 99% of clear cuts down here are replanted immediately once finished with harvesting.
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Re: So ashamed. I forgot all about Earth Day.

Postby Nesikep » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:54 pm

Does the law have anything to do with that? They are here too.. NOW.. not in the first 3/4 of the 1900's though
I'm using this as an example.. PETA, et al wouldn't have a leg to stand on if there weren't SOME bad eggs in our industry that make our life harder
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Re: So ashamed. I forgot all about Earth Day.

Postby Jogeephus » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:06 pm

Nesikep wrote:Does the law have anything to do with that? They are here too.. NOW.. not in the first 3/4 of the 1900's though
I'm using this as an example.. PETA, et al wouldn't have a leg to stand on if there weren't SOME bad eggs in our industry that make our life harder


No laws that I know of. Its private property and if you want to pay taxes growing bushes then that's your right. Several years ago one of the environmental groups were soliciting money by showing pictures of the Mt. St. Helen's aftermath blaming all the downed timber on the logging industry. One of my friends confronted the speaker after his speech and they guy admitted doing this but laughed and said, "just look at the money we collected".

IMO, the biggest threat to forests on private lands is the government and the death tax that forces people to clearcut their trees.
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Re: So ashamed. I forgot all about Earth Day.

Postby Boot Jack Bulls » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:47 pm

Major side note here, but the founder of Earth day, Gaylord Nelson was born in my hometown. The elementary school still bears his name and his childhood home still stands in town. I actually met him when I was a senior. All politics aside, he was a very pleasant man, who truly cared about the people of his hometown. As you can imagine, Earth Day is a big deal in our town. It is a great excuse to get students of all ages out of the school, doing something worthy. They pick up trash, clean up yards of the elderly, paint buildings, plant flowers for main street, build park benches and picnic tables, clean up the various parks and public areas, ect. They make it less about the political aspect, and more about getting out and doing something to better your community.
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Re: So ashamed. I forgot all about Earth Day.

Postby Bright Raven » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:53 pm

Boot Jack Bulls wrote:Major side note here, but the founder of Earth day, Gaylord Nelson was born in my hometown. The elementary school still bears his name and his childhood home still stands in town. I actually met him when I was a senior. All politics aside, he was a very pleasant man, who truly cared about the people of his hometown. As you can imagine, Earth Day is a big deal in our town. It is a great excuse to get students of all ages out of the school, doing something worthy. They pick up trash, clean up yards of the elderly, paint buildings, plant flowers for main street, build park benches and picnic tables, clean up the various parks and public areas, ect. They make it less about the political aspect, and more about getting out and doing something to better your community.


Its refreshing to see the positive accentuated. Thanks.
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