Tax Reform

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HDRider
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby HDRider » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:15 pm

Every time a dollar turns it is taxed, but not on the same person.
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Caustic Burno
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby Caustic Burno » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:27 pm

HDRider wrote:Every time a dollar turns it is taxed, but not on the same person.



Rider in Texas we understand sales tax.
There is no income tax just sales tax.
If you make a million bucks and only spend 100k that is all you pay State taxes on.
I like that a lot better than taxing what I make.
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby HDRider » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:29 pm

CB you don't have to be from Texas to understand sales tax.
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby cow pollinater » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:08 pm

Real tax reform/simplification won't ever happen. To many jobs in both the private and public sector would be lost if it were made simple and no politician wants that on their record. They'd rather leave it as a mess that takes hours and hours to sort through.
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby Brute 23 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:47 pm

HDRider wrote:
Brute 23 wrote:Corporate taxes and estate taxes are both double taxes.

You will have to explain to me how the same person pays taxes twice on those two things.


So let's say you and I have a C Corp. The corporation will pay the corporate tax rate on any profit (1st).

Then when you and I take decide to pay dividends on our shares we would personally pay taxes on that money, again (2nd).

Now, let's say in spite of all that taxation we are each able to have a net worth of $10 million dollars from our C-corp when we die. The government will tax our heir(s) every thing over $5.49 million (3rd).

So actually that same dollar could be taxed 3 times.

I don't see how any one in agriculture would not be for Trumps tax plans. He wants to eliminate the death tax. That is a huge killer of family farms and ranches. That alone is enough reason to back his plans.

When every one blames the kids for selling off daddy's land remember some off them are forced to just to pay the taxes. :mad:
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby HDRider » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:08 am

B23 You did better than I expected, but you still missed my point. I said a dollar is taxed every time it turns.

I asked for an example where one person is taxed twice on the same dollar.

This is all debating the number of angels on the head of a pin.

As many have said, and sadly I agree, we will not see substantial change in our tax system. Too many people rely on how it is now, like deducting big property tax bills. How fair is it to pull the rug out from under them? They pay, and pay, then we ask they pay more..

A big change will take one of two things, guts, or a calamity. We know politicians have no guts.
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby Brute 23 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:30 am

HDRider wrote:B23 You did better than I expected, but you still missed my point. I said a dollar is taxed every time it turns.

I asked for an example where one person is taxed twice on the same dollar.

This is all debating the number of angels on the head of a pin.

As many have said, and sadly I agree, we will not see substantial change in our tax system. Too many people rely on how it is now, like deducting big property tax bills. How fair is it to pull the rug out from under them? They pay, and pay, then we ask they pay more..

A big change will take one of two things, guts, or a calamity. We know politicians have no guts.


No one would be pulling the rug out. Your assuming they would pay more.

I can understand saying the estate tax has changed hands but not the corporate tax. That is the share holders money. Dividends are just that person pulling money out of their business. They don't tax llcs or s-corps twice like that.
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby HDRider » Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:05 am

I do agree that dividends are taxed twice.
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby TexasBred » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:51 am

HDRider wrote:I do agree that dividends are taxed twice.

Corporate profits twice....dividends only once.
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby Craig Miller » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:27 am

Brute 23 wrote:
HDRider wrote:
Brute 23 wrote:Corporate taxes and estate taxes are both double taxes.

You will have to explain to me how the same person pays taxes twice on those two things.


So let's say you and I have a C Corp. The corporation will pay the corporate tax rate on any profit (1st).

Then when you and I take decide to pay dividends on our shares we would personally pay taxes on that money, again (2nd).

Now, let's say in spite of all that taxation we are each able to have a net worth of $10 million dollars from our C-corp when we die. The government will tax our heir(s) every thing over $5.49 million (3rd).

So actually that same dollar could be taxed 3 times.

I don't see how any one in agriculture would not be for Trumps tax plans. He wants to eliminate the death tax. That is a huge killer of family farms and ranches. That alone is enough reason to back his plans.

When every one blames the kids for selling off daddy's land remember some off them are forced to just to pay the taxes. :mad:


You just said in this quote the estate tax is anything over 5.49 mil. Double that for married couples. How many small farms are worth dollars like that? According to the numbers I've seen it's somewhere around 0.2% of all people end up paying the estate tax.
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby Dogs and Cows » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:39 am

What the heck is the middle class??? As I read it 50% of tax filers pay no income tax at all...and many get back more than they paid in...so in theory this would include many in the middle class correct? I believe everyone should have skin in the game. EVERYONE. No more takers. No more free loaders. I am sick and tired of subsidizing a massive segment of the population that never goes without smart phones, new vehicles, cable TV, etc. But can't afford food...health care...or save for retirement. This be nice has to stop! I won't lie, I have done very well for myself in my lifetime. I have sympathy for those less fortunate. But I simply am getting to the end of my rope. Sorry for the rant...I really am!

Tim
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby True Grit Farms » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:34 pm

Dogs and Cows wrote:What the heck is the middle class??? As I read it 50% of tax filers pay no income tax at all...and many get back more than they paid in...so in theory this would include many in the middle class correct? I believe everyone should have skin in the game. EVERYONE. No more takers. No more free loaders. I am sick and tired of subsidizing a massive segment of the population that never goes without smart phones, new vehicles, cable TV, etc. But can't afford food...health care...or save for retirement. This be nice has to stop! I won't lie, I have done very well for myself in my lifetime. I have sympathy for those less fortunate. But I simply am getting to the end of my rope. Sorry for the rant...I really am!
Tim

That's put about as good as you can. The fact is the taxpayers don't owe anyone anything, the government steals our tax dollars and then gives a percentage of the dollars away. Tax dollars were meant to be used to govern and provide services for the people, and not to be given away to support a sector of the population. Our government has been hijacked and it's people are being taken advantage of. ..but that's old news.
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby ChrisB » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:07 pm

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what the federal sales take rate would have to be without any spending cuts?
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby HDRider » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:40 pm

ChrisB wrote:Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what the federal sales take rate would have to be without any spending cuts?

By my calculation, and I could very easily be wrong, the sales tax rate would have to be 85% to balance the budget.

The Federal budget is a little over $4 trillion. Sales of goods and services in the US is $5 Trillion per year. So we would almost double the cost of everything with sales tax.
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby Brute 23 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:13 pm

HDRider wrote:
ChrisB wrote:Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what the federal sales take rate would have to be without any spending cuts?

By my calculation, and I could very easily be wrong, the sales tax rate would have to be 85% to balance the budget.

The Federal budget is a little over $4 trillion. Sales of goods and services in the US is $5 Trillion per year. So we would almost double the cost of everything with sales tax.


That's IF you kept up with the budget. The tax cuts are not a silver bullet. The govt spending HAS TO come down. There is NO TAX PLAN that can keep up with their spending.

There has to be a fundamental change in the was the US operates financially. The bad thing is a lot of the little things discussed here will not even move the needle in the budget.

The best thing I have heard from Trump is forcing these other countries to pay for their own, or reimburse us, for our military expenses. Our defense budget is crazy and we spend a lot of dollars defending countries that pay us nothing for that.
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