tankless hot water heater

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Ebenezer
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Re: tankless hot water heater

Postby Ebenezer » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:12 am

Supplier told me that some electric models are very noisy. They had returns based on that. So, check it out.
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pdfangus
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Re: tankless hot water heater

Postby pdfangus » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:02 am

back in those days....late nineties....I was a Diversey territory manager.....we struggled mightily with having enough hot water to keep systems clean....we had all the heaters cranked up as high as they would go but the wash water cooled off so quickly it was problematic....

we were actually ecstatic that we had a system that could maintain 145...and that system stayed clean....
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ez14.
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Re: tankless hot water heater

Postby ez14. » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:20 am

pdfangus wrote:back in those days....late nineties....I was a Diversey territory manager.....we struggled mightily with having enough hot water to keep systems clean....we had all the heaters cranked up as high as they would go but the wash water cooled off so quickly it was problematic....

we were actually ecstatic that we had a system that could maintain 145...and that system stayed clean....
for dairys in Michigan you will get fined if it's under 160
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Re: tankless hot water heater

Postby pdfangus » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:46 pm

ez14. wrote:
pdfangus wrote:back in those days....late nineties....I was a Diversey territory manager.....we struggled mightily with having enough hot water to keep systems clean....we had all the heaters cranked up as high as they would go but the wash water cooled off so quickly it was problematic....

we were actually ecstatic that we had a system that could maintain 145...and that system stayed clean....
for dairys in Michigan you will get fined if it's under 160


I would be interested to know how producers keep the wash water that hot especially in a cold climate.

most good dairy cleaners will work very well at 145.....many will struggle when the dump temp sinks below 110.
in food plants and commercial facilities like receiving stations steam can be added to the wash water to keep it hot but in those days very few dairy farms had steam.
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Re: tankless hot water heater

Postby ez14. » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:54 pm

pdfangus wrote:
ez14. wrote:
pdfangus wrote:back in those days....late nineties....I was a Diversey territory manager.....we struggled mightily with having enough hot water to keep systems clean....we had all the heaters cranked up as high as they would go but the wash water cooled off so quickly it was problematic....

we were actually ecstatic that we had a system that could maintain 145...and that system stayed clean....
for dairys in Michigan you will get fined if it's under 160


I would be interested to know how producers keep the wash water that hot especially in a cold climate.

most good dairy cleaners will work very well at 145.....many will struggle when the dump temp sinks below 110.
in food plants and commercial facilities like receiving stations steam can be added to the wash water to keep it hot but in those days very few dairy farms had steam.

We got a hot water heater that heats the water to 180 degrees and have it very close to the wash system which is in a heated part of the barn (not real warm but always above freezing) I don't know how other farms do it
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Re: tankless hot water heater

Postby pdfangus » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:56 pm

looked up michigan information on cleaning dairies.

the minimum temp at the start of the wash cycle is 160 degrees....
it recommends dumping by 110 degrees.
I bet many of them are dumping at lower temps than that....

I will take an eight minute wash at 145 degrees constant, any time....
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Re: tankless hot water heater

Postby ez14. » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:59 pm

I'm not sure what temperature ours dumps at but I do know that it's unpleasantly warm! :nod:
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Re: tankless hot water heater

Postby farmerjan » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:21 pm

Here in Va all the dairies have to be min 160 or 165. I forget. Most of the tankless ones have the temps on them as the water goes thru and I have never seen one under 165, most are at 170. You cannot hold your hand in the water. I think the dump temp is 110 also, but I do know that not only the "outside temp" has alot to do with it but also the length or run of pipe will cool it off quick. Most run shorter times now but the temps are higher.
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Re: tankless hot water heater

Postby skyhightree1 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:54 pm

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Re: tankless hot water heater

Postby RayfromTX » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:20 pm

I'd say the answers you got are pretty good. I doubt you will justify retrofitting one in place of a tank type. The plumbing and vent costs are too high on top of the cost of the unit. I do however use them on every home I build. I've had one at my house for 15 years.

Electric is a poor choice. The wattage required to match the performance of a gas unit is tremendous and can easily double the size of your electric service. If you want one that will make 6 gallons a minute at a 50 degree rise you may be unable to add the load to your existing electrical service. Check that out before looking further into an electric unit. I would never install an electric unit.

Tankless units typically use 190,000 btus per hour. That is a good bit of energy. A btu is the energy required to raise the temperature of one pound of water by one degree Fahrenheit. One cu ft of natural gas contains 1,000 btus of energy. My wife and I use around 20$ worth of propane to heat our water each month. The cost if we used natural gas would be 10$.

By comparison, to heat the same water with an electric tankless would go like this. First off the tankless of the same capacity would run about 48,000 watts which at 240 volts would be 200 amps. My electric heat pump that heats my house uses 10 amps when running by comparison. For that reason most electric tankless heaters for residential use compromise on capacity.

To heat 2,000 gallons of water from 70 degrees to 120 degrees would use 11 gallons of propane with a 82% efficient tankless heater. My cost is 20$. Natural gas would be 1,000 cu ft. Typical cost would be 10$ Electric would be almost 100 percent efficient. The same 2,000 gallons heated 50 degrees would require 243 Kwh of electric which at 10 cents per would run you $24.30 cents. The electricity cost isn't what gets you, it's the size of the service that would be required unless you are willing to limit your hot water use. Don't plan on taking a shower while using other hot water demands with a small electric tankless unit. Your shower will use 2 gallons a minute. That alone would require over 60 amps which is a 4 gauge wire.

My electric consumption at any one time has never exceeded 18 amps and I have 2 electric clothes dryers and electric heat. On laundry day we are running 2 washers, two dryers, a clothes iron, the dishwasher and the electric heat and a tv etc. I'm still only using less than a third of the energy of taking a shower with an electric tankless. The problem is, with heating water you need a lot of energy in a short period of time unless you store it and heat it over time.

I hope this helps.
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Re: tankless hot water heater

Postby KMURBAN » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:22 am

I got one (electric) for one sink and a shower, love it...

However I started with a cheaper model from Menards, replaced it twice in a year because of heavy mineral deposits and it had no reset button, so even if you cleaned it it was useless. Finally replaced it with a Stiebel Eltron ( German made ) with a anti scale filter. It's been 2 years and works great even without a water softener.

I should add, that they all work on flow rate, so a two handled faucet works best. Even in the shower.
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