Loggers

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jehosofat
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Re: Loggers

Postby jehosofat » Thu May 10, 2018 8:34 am

hurleyjd wrote:If they gave it to you after a clear cut then you would be out bokoo dollars turning it into pasture. Might try to find a place ready to go and buy it instant use without waiting years to get the place up and going.


It joins land I already own.

I've turned three other clear cuts into pasture in less than a year, total time to grass.

I own or have access to the equipment.
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skyhightree1
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Re: Loggers

Postby skyhightree1 » Thu May 10, 2018 1:12 pm

jehosofat wrote:Looking at a 50 acre tract of land for sale, mostly pine and a few hardwoods along the creek. Price is CHEAP, but the timber has already been contracted out. Timber contract calls for 300 cords of wood removed. Roughly how much is that on 50 acres? I know there are a lot of variables, but just a rough idea.


Realistically unless you're going to come out of pocket with a lot of money they are going to cut almost everything standing if you buying the land hinges on keeping the hardwoods I would keep looking. If they have that contract with the estate they do not care if you get trees or not they got the timber money and want the land money. This doesn't look like a good situation for you unfortunately if you want to keep a good bit of timber.
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Re: Loggers

Postby skyhightree1 » Thu May 10, 2018 1:14 pm

hurleyjd wrote:If they gave it to you after a clear cut then you would be out bokoo dollars turning it into pasture. Might try to find a place ready to go and buy it instant use without waiting years to get the place up and going.


Here its not alot of $$ or time to do so as most of our woods are pine
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True Grit Farms
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Re: Loggers

Postby True Grit Farms » Thu May 10, 2018 5:59 pm

The loggers have a contract to cut pine trees. If they cut hard and load hardwoods it's stealing. I don't believe they'll like paying the Bill.
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Re: Loggers

Postby jehosofat » Thu May 10, 2018 8:39 pm

skyhightree1 wrote:
jehosofat wrote:Looking at a 50 acre tract of land for sale, mostly pine and a few hardwoods along the creek. Price is CHEAP, but the timber has already been contracted out. Timber contract calls for 300 cords of wood removed. Roughly how much is that on 50 acres? I know there are a lot of variables, but just a rough idea.


Realistically unless you're going to come out of pocket with a lot of money they are going to cut almost everything standing if you buying the land hinges on keeping the hardwoods I would keep looking. If they have that contract with the estate they do not care if you get trees or not they got the timber money and want the land money. This doesn't look like a good situation for you unfortunately if you want to keep a good bit of timber.


Did you actually read this thread?
Contract is for 300 cords.
I don't want to keep timber, just the little bit of hardwoods along the creek.
They don't have a contract but for a thinning of pines at roughly 300 cords.
What I'm trying to do is get the contract changed to where they buy every single pine tree on the entire place.
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Re: Loggers

Postby greybeard » Thu May 10, 2018 10:42 pm

jehosofat wrote:
skyhightree1 wrote:
jehosofat wrote:Looking at a 50 acre tract of land for sale, mostly pine and a few hardwoods along the creek. Price is CHEAP, but the timber has already been contracted out. Timber contract calls for 300 cords of wood removed. Roughly how much is that on 50 acres? I know there are a lot of variables, but just a rough idea.



I don't want to keep timber, just the little bit of hardwoods along the creek.
They don't have a contract but for a thinning of pines at roughly 300 cords.
What I'm trying to do is get the contract changed to where they buy every single pine tree on the entire place.

You going to renegotiate the contract where you (as the new land owner) get the proceeds for everything above 300 cords I assume?

Just asking, as I'm not familiar with selling timber by the cord.

When you buy (or sell) wooded land, the timber is part of the value of the land, and is included in the asking price.
Are you any better off, getting with the current owner, telling him you'd like it all cut (except the hardwood along the creek) letting him have the total proceeds but deduct all the timber value from the asking price of the land?

I ask, because around here, getting a parcel thinned is hard to do, whereas a clearcut job, they are more apt to jump right on in a hurry and I figure you are in a hurry to get it cleaned up and into pasture as soon as possible..
Also here, there is very rarely a market for the small stuff--mills just aren't taking much pulpwood/chip wood other than what they take as full length 'chip n saw'. Saw log off the big end and the little ends get chipped.
(it's all bought and sold by the ton here)
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Re: Loggers

Postby Jogeephus » Fri May 11, 2018 4:38 am

A cord is simply a unit of measure. It doesn't matter if they are buying it by the cord, unit or by the mess there should be a definition of the unit used in the contract so its not that complicated. Here, a standard cord weighs 2.8 tons for pine so converting from cords to tons is not difficult. The benefit of doing what the OP is talking about is the income from the timber will not be taxable and it will set a solid basis in his land value for tax purposes.

If I were in this situation I'd do a little homework on the logger and check the prices to be sure the last owner had worked out a fair deal and not been scammed. I'd want to be sure the logger was one known for doing clean cuts and not a cherry picker because other loggers don't like to clean up someone else's mess.
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Re: Loggers

Postby greybeard » Fri May 11, 2018 7:46 am

"A cord is simply a unit of measure."

So is a ton.
If you are going to convert it to tons anyway, why not begin with tons?

Why not cubits or varas?
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Re: Loggers

Postby skyhightree1 » Fri May 11, 2018 8:53 am

jehosofat wrote:
skyhightree1 wrote:
jehosofat wrote:Looking at a 50 acre tract of land for sale, mostly pine and a few hardwoods along the creek. Price is CHEAP, but the timber has already been contracted out. Timber contract calls for 300 cords of wood removed. Roughly how much is that on 50 acres? I know there are a lot of variables, but just a rough idea.


Realistically unless you're going to come out of pocket with a lot of money they are going to cut almost everything standing if you buying the land hinges on keeping the hardwoods I would keep looking. If they have that contract with the estate they do not care if you get trees or not they got the timber money and want the land money. This doesn't look like a good situation for you unfortunately if you want to keep a good bit of timber.


Did you actually read this thread?
Contract is for 300 cords.
I don't want to keep timber, just the little bit of hardwoods along the creek.
They don't have a contract but for a thinning of pines at roughly 300 cords.
What I'm trying to do is get the contract changed to where they buy every single pine tree on the entire place.


Nope I can't read I just guess that you were talking about timber when the only word i could make out was loggers =)
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Re: Loggers

Postby Jogeephus » Fri May 11, 2018 8:17 pm

greybeard wrote:"A cord is simply a unit of measure."

So is a ton.
If you are going to convert it to tons anyway, why not begin with tons?

Why not cubits or varas?


Why would you want to convert it to tons if the orginal contract is in cords? What matters is how the contract is written and I don't think Jehosefat had anything to do with that. What I understand is he is asking for suggestions on how best to get the rest of HIS timber cut. The residual volume after the 300 cords is cut.
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Re: Loggers

Postby kenny thomas » Fri May 11, 2018 9:34 pm

Heck, ask the current landowner who he sold to. Call them and negotiate your own cash deal up front. Here all loggers aren't bad. I can get a whole tree chipper to remove everything including the leaves. Plus I can get the money up front. So if i agree to the price it's paid for
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Re: Loggers

Postby Jogeephus » Fri May 11, 2018 9:42 pm

I agree Kenny. Personally though I wouldn't say a thing to them just yet. Jehosofat has the luxury of being able to see what type loggers they are before he enters a trade so I surely wouldn't show them my hand or discuss my business with them just yet. They might be great loggers but they might be bottom feeders. I'd just wait and see how they log and how they are paying before I did anything.
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Re: Loggers

Postby callmefence » Sat May 12, 2018 9:19 am

I can certainly see trying to negotiate to your best advantage. I don't think ol ' Jehosaphat gives a shiet about the pines other than getting them gone. Idk
If the land joined me and was cheap I would do the same. But make dam sure I didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Pines, no pines, or a total mess. I wouldn't let cheap land that joins me get buy without taking.my hardest run at it.
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Re: Loggers

Postby greybeard » Sat May 12, 2018 9:47 am

Jogeephus wrote:
greybeard wrote:"A cord is simply a unit of measure."

So is a ton.
If you are going to convert it to tons anyway, why not begin with tons?

Why not cubits or varas?


Why would you want to convert it to tons if the orginal contract is in cords?

"If you are going to convert it to tons anyway"
I don't know where jehosphat is located..
That's how the mills buy it here, by the ton, and that's how it's quoted by the loggers or timber appraiser and that's how it's contracted.
XXX tons of pine saw logs.
XXX tons of chipNsaw.
XX tons of pulpwood.
XX tons of hardwood saw logs.
And occassionally, xx tons of hardwood pulpwood. (that's when you can get rid of some Chinese Tallow)

Used to be in board feet but everyone went to tons about a decade ago. Only thing bought/sold by cord here is firewood. They may have bought by cord back in the days when the mills bought short pulpwood, but I haven't seen a short pulpwooder in many many years.
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Re: Loggers

Postby Jogeephus » Sat May 12, 2018 10:55 am

greybeard wrote:
Jogeephus wrote:
greybeard wrote:"A cord is simply a unit of measure."

So is a ton.
If you are going to convert it to tons anyway, why not begin with tons?

Why not cubits or varas?


Why would you want to convert it to tons if the orginal contract is in cords?

"If you are going to convert it to tons anyway"
I don't know where jehosphat is located..
That's how the mills buy it here, by the ton, and that's how it's quoted by the loggers or timber appraiser and that's how it's contracted.
XXX tons of pine saw logs.
XXX tons of chipNsaw.
XX tons of pulpwood.
XX tons of hardwood saw logs.
And occassionally, xx tons of hardwood pulpwood. (that's when you can get rid of some Chinese Tallow)

Used to be in board feet but everyone went to tons about a decade ago. Only thing bought/sold by cord here is firewood. They may have bought by cord back in the days when the mills bought short pulpwood, but I haven't seen a short pulpwooder in many many years.


Doesn't really matter where he is from. HIs original post clearly states the timber contract calls for the removal of 300 cords of wood so that must be how they do it where he lives and there is nothing wrong with that. Myself, I'd like to see more things sold by the mess myself. Everyone knows what a mess of fish or a mess of turnips looks like. Can't say I've ever seen a mess of hay though.
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