Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Anything that doesn't fit in the other boards.
User avatar
jltrent
GURU
GURU
Posts: 2716
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:04 pm
Has thanked: 44 times
Been thanked: 50 times

Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Post by jltrent » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:03 am

Wood post before 2004 contained arsenic and test have shown a soil contamination of at least 8' around them. According to the EPA experts this can cause health hazards. Can the dirt just be dug up and taken to a landfill? Also could this be causing health problems for my cattle?

https://www.co.thurston.wa.us/health/ehhm/cca.html

Dave
GURU
GURU
Posts: 7335
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:35 pm
Location: Baker County, Oregon
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Post by Dave » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:25 am

Well there is arsenic in the soil. Actually it is there naturally too. All those years I did soil tests for people the city people would want soil test for arsenic. When I would tell them that they indeed had arsenic in their soil it would shock them. It is not a matter of is it present. It is at what level does it need to reach to be harmful.

User avatar
Bright Raven
GURU
GURU
Posts: 8713
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 165 times
Been thanked: 118 times

Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Post by Bright Raven » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:48 am

I would not worry about the amount of arsenic that would leach out of a fence post. No. It is extremely unlikely it would hurt a cow based on the percentage of their total diet that would come from around the fence posts.

Arsenic is naturally occurring and the levels depend on the geological history of the area. The rocky Mountain region tends to have high arsenic levels.

As the Remedial Project Manager on the Butte Montana Priority Soils Superfund Project, Arsenic was one of the major contaminants of concern along with lead. On that site, the arsenic was the result of hard rock mining.

To set action levels for arsenic and other soil contaminants, site-specific risk assessments have to be conducted to determine the clean up levels. 90 % of the named responsible parties have enough money and resources that the EPA cannot pull cleanup levels out of the clear blue sky. They have to be demonstrated through risk assessments. Many times like in Butte, we fed contaminated soils to hogs to determine bioavailability and effects.

There are generally no specific legal levels set in statute. It all has to be proven in scientific study and evaluated by toxicologists.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

User avatar
greybeard
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 17923
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:51 pm
Location: Cleveland Tx
Has thanked: 44 times
Been thanked: 110 times

Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Post by greybeard » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:30 am

old lace can be more deadly than arsenic.......
"For evil to flourish, all that is required is for good men to do nothing" Burke

It ain't easy being a used cow salesman.

Covet Not!

Stocker Steve
GURU
GURU
Posts: 8557
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 8:28 am
Location: Central Minnesota
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Post by Stocker Steve » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:37 pm

Bright Raven wrote:Many times like in Butte, we fed contaminated soils to hogs to determine bioavailability and effects. There are generally no specific legal levels set in statute. It all has to be proven in scientific study and evaluated by toxicologists.


How do you know when a hog is toxic?
Stocker Steve

User avatar
Rafter S
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4121
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:13 am
Location: Grimes County, TX

Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Post by Rafter S » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:56 pm

jltrent wrote:Wood post before 2004 contained arsenic and test have shown a soil contamination of at least 8' around them. According to the EPA experts this can cause health hazards. Can the dirt just be dug up and taken to a landfill? Also could this be causing health problems for my cattle?

https://www.co.thurston.wa.us/health/ehhm/cca.html


Only if you're in California.
Life is too short to drink cheap beer or dance with ugly women.

User avatar
Bright Raven
GURU
GURU
Posts: 8713
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 165 times
Been thanked: 118 times

Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Post by Bright Raven » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:02 pm

Stocker Steve wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:Many times like in Butte, we fed contaminated soils to hogs to determine bioavailability and effects. There are generally no specific legal levels set in statute. It all has to be proven in scientific study and evaluated by toxicologists.


How do you know when a hog is toxic?


The study of bioavailability of metals in hogs as a proxy for using humans was developed in Great Britain. They feed the hog known quantities of the species of contaminants from a specific site. It is a long explanation so briefly, they deduce how much is absorbed into the hog and how much is excreted. That provides data on whether the contaminant is bioavailable. Some forms of lead in silica for instant pass right through. Zero bioavailability. Thus, you cannot enforce a cleanup if there is ZERO risk. Hogs are much like humans in function. Thus, they act as a proxy. If they show high levels of lead in tissue then a model (IBUK) is used to determine "toxicity ". I am summarizing what is contained in volumes.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

User avatar
ALACOWMAN
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 15929
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:16 pm
Location: Alabama the Beautiful
Has thanked: 100 times
Been thanked: 96 times

Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Post by ALACOWMAN » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:13 pm

Stocker Steve wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:Many times like in Butte, we fed contaminated soils to hogs to determine bioavailability and effects. There are generally no specific legal levels set in statute. It all has to be proven in scientific study and evaluated by toxicologists.


How do you know when a hog is toxic?

This is a good indicator ..https://www.google.com/search?q=dead+pi ... KXPnQomsSM:
someone said I should follow my dreams,,so I went back to bed...

wbvs58
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4216
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:45 am
Location: S.E. Queensland, Australia
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 61 times

Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Post by wbvs58 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:11 pm

It's good for you. The old geriatric tonics used to have arsenic and strychnine in them to give the oldies a bit of pep. Now they just have viagra.

Ken

User avatar
MtnCows93
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:17 pm
Location: Foothills of NC
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Post by MtnCows93 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:16 pm

i know a guy that burned a old pile of treated wood out in his pasture and the cows ate the ashes and killed 8 of his cows

User avatar
Bright Raven
GURU
GURU
Posts: 8713
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 165 times
Been thanked: 118 times

Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Post by Bright Raven » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:20 pm

MtnCows93 wrote:i know a guy that burned a old pile of treated wood out in his pasture and the cows ate the ashes and killed 8 of his cows


That is a pathway of a totally different nature. In that case the arsenic and other preservatives would be concentrated in the ash. In which case, there is a clear pathway for the cows to get a lethal dose.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

User avatar
JMJ Farms
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4150
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:51 pm
Location: Middle Georgia
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 103 times

Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Post by JMJ Farms » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:39 pm

MtnCows93 wrote:i know a guy that burned a old pile of treated wood out in his pasture and the cows ate the ashes and killed 8 of his cows


Heard of this some years back. Good thing somebody told me too bc I wouldn’t have ever given it a second thought. What compels them to eat the ashes?
Until we remember that the left wing and the right wing belong to the same bird and we come together as a nation then this country is in for more turmoil - Jogeephus

User avatar
Bright Raven
GURU
GURU
Posts: 8713
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 165 times
Been thanked: 118 times

Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Post by Bright Raven » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:40 pm

JMJ Farms wrote:
MtnCows93 wrote:i know a guy that burned a old pile of treated wood out in his pasture and the cows ate the ashes and killed 8 of his cows


Heard of this some years back. Good thing somebody told me too bc I wouldn’t have ever given it a second thought. What compels them to eat the ashes?


Minerals. They are attracted by the salts and minerals in ash.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

User avatar
sim.-ang.king
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4670
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:17 pm
Location: Southern IL
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 145 times
Contact:

Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Post by sim.-ang.king » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:40 pm

greybeard wrote:old lace can be more deadly than arsenic.......


If you meet two friendly old ladies, refuse the elderberry wine!
“Almost persuaded,” harvest is past!
“Almost persuaded,” doom comes at last;
“Almost” cannot avail;
“Almost” is but to fail!
Sad, sad that bitter wail—
“Almost—but lost!”

User avatar
msplmtneer
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1089
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:30 pm
Location: Where the rockets rattle your windows. Fl but my heart in WV.
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Post by msplmtneer » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:42 am

When I worked at a wood treating plant ne of my jabs was to check the solution for the % of chrome,copper and arsenic also in the wood. I also sampled water out of a water cooler on city water, the iced tea I took to work and Mountain Dew soda I can't remember the numbers but everything I sampled had arsenic in it the Mountain Dew had the most. Some time in the late 1990s or early 2000 Congress outlawed arsenic in the treatment of wood for the general public. As far as I know it was nation wide, we changed to a different chemical that we had to add separate from separate tank it was about twice as costly and we used a tanker load about every other day. The CCA solution we used before we used about two loads a week. The new chemical was commonly called Quat was more corrosive than the CCA and more harmful to critters and humans, I touched some pipe that had some Quat spilled on it and was hosed off and had dried and was burned on both of my forearms it is nasty stuff it eats metal but is legal. So yes Arsenic is nasty also but it is natural and you can find it every where but not in lethal amounts but there is a warning sheet you should have been given where you bought the wood that tells you not to burn scrap treated wood to dispose of it in a landfill or incinerator. :tiphat:
If you are going to be stupid you gotta be tough

Post Reply