Broadway AI bull.

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Re: Broadway AI bull.

Postby Franke » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:07 pm

Cow's genetics, feed, weather, and management are all factors that could have affected those calves. We bought some semen to use for bred heifers that we were going to sell. Only had one stay and she calved herself this spring but the calf was dead. Not what I wanted to hear from the customer. We didn't use him this year at all and will likely wait until there are more calves and a better accuracy on his epds.
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Re: Broadway AI bull.

Postby Son of Butch » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:29 pm

Till-Hill wrote:
Son of Butch wrote:
Franke wrote: a breeder that had two cut out and had a couple hard pulls.

Calving ease is sooo overrated. :roll:

I looked up Broadway's progeny report.... over 500 calves registered in 2 calf crops.
If only 2 deads and a couple hard pulls I'd take them odds.

IF Only then we are talking a new world record for any breed.... 2 out of over 500 = less than 0.04% death loss.

Obviously it's not the whole story if one guy reports 2 cut out (in addition to hard pulls) in his herd alone.
How many calves did this 1 fellow have sired by this bull? Was it 2 out of 10? 20? 50?
We don't know as that part was not stated.
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Re: Broadway AI bull.

Postby Franke » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:07 pm

Son of Butch wrote:
Till-Hill wrote:
Son of Butch wrote:Calving ease is sooo overrated. :roll:

I looked up Broadway's progeny report.... over 500 calves registered in 2 calf crops.
If only 2 deads and a couple hard pulls I'd take them odds.

IF Only then we are talking a new world record for any breed.... 2 out of over 500 = less than 0.04% death loss.

Obviously it's not the whole story if one guy reports 2 cut out (in addition to hard pulls) in his herd alone.
How many calves did this 1 fellow have sired by this bull? Was it 2 out of 10? 20? 50?
We don't know as that part was not stated.

I didn't ask who it was or how many calves they had out of him. I'm sure if you call Tom or Ed they will give you some straight answers on him.
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Re: Broadway AI bull.

Postby True Grit Farms » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:26 pm

Common sense to me is don't breed heifers to any up and coming young bulls. There's to many proven Angus sires with LB weights to take any chances. A heifer usually isn't going to produce a calf worthy of selling for breeding stock.
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Re: Broadway AI bull.

Postby Fire Sweep Ranch » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:50 pm

I would never use an Angus bull on my simmentals.... there are too many good calving ease simmentals bulls I can use instead!
My heifers have produced calves worthy of selling as seedstock. I have posted numerous pictures of our Optomizer heifer, out of a first calf heifer. She is due Oct 1st to Elevate. You should not be producing throw away calves if you are a good purebred breeder. Know your genetics, match your cattle. That is why we AI, I can match each heifer to the bull that will best cross with her.
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Re: Broadway AI bull.

Postby True Grit Farms » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:53 pm

Fire Sweep Ranch wrote:I would never use an Angus bull on my simmentals.... there are too many good calving ease simmentals bulls I can use instead!
My heifers have produced calves worthy of selling as seedstock. I have posted numerous pictures of our Optomizer heifer, out of a first calf heifer. She is due Oct 1st to Elevate. You should not be producing throw away calves if you are a good purebred breeder. Know your genetics, match your cattle. That is why we AI, I can match each heifer to the bull that will best cross with her.


Have you ever had any yearlings bulls or heifers in any of the university feed evaluation sales? Very few heifers can produce enough milk for the calf to make adg weight. We don't throw away any calves, but I've been known to cut and cull a bunch of keepers though.
I know what works and what doesn't around here, and a heifers calf can not compare to a good cows calf with the same breeding. No bs just fact.
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Re: Broadway AI bull.

Postby Franke » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:50 am

True Grit Farms wrote:
Fire Sweep Ranch wrote:I would never use an Angus bull on my simmentals.... there are too many good calving ease simmentals bulls I can use instead!
My heifers have produced calves worthy of selling as seedstock. I have posted numerous pictures of our Optomizer heifer, out of a first calf heifer. She is due Oct 1st to Elevate. You should not be producing throw away calves if you are a good purebred breeder. Know your genetics, match your cattle. That is why we AI, I can match each heifer to the bull that will best cross with her.


Have you ever had any yearlings bulls or heifers in any of the university feed evaluation sales? Very few heifers can produce enough milk for the calf to make adg weight. We don't throw away any calves, but I've been known to cut and cull a bunch of keepers though.
I know what works and what doesn't around here, and a heifers calf can not compare to a good cows calf with the same breeding. No bs just fact.

There will always be exceptions to every rule about cattle. Most of our calves out of heifers are sold as feeder calves. I would say most of it because they are smaller and out of angus bulls. I do have one this year out of Yellowstone that I bought that is doing really well and will market as breeding stock. We as a family agree it's better to have a little calf with no problems to jump start the heifer to being a cow than to have some issues and screw her up for the rest of her life.
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Re: Broadway AI bull.

Postby Stocker Steve » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:00 am

True Grit Farms wrote:a heifers calf can not compare to a good cows calf with the same breeding. No bs just fact.


Amazing amount of growth in some modern genetics. I have one simi angus bull calf from a heifer that is 100# bigger than any of the rest - - he is a milk thief. :nod: How does that effect EPDs?
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Re: Broadway AI bull.

Postby True Grit Farms » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:52 am

Stocker Steve wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:a heifers calf can not compare to a good cows calf with the same breeding. No bs just fact.


Amazing amount of growth in some modern genetics. I have one simi angus bull calf from a heifer that is 100# bigger than any of the rest - - he is a milk thief. :nod: How does that effect EPDs?


There's exceptions to the rules for sure. Everyone's best cow started out as a heifers at one time. All the calves have access to Godfrey's calf - grower feed 24/7, and some always out shine others. But I can't think of a heifers first calf ever leading the group. Most breeders breed for calving ease on all the heifers and usually that means a smaller calf genetically. To me it's just common cow sense that a heifer will and should produce a smaller calf.
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Re: Broadway AI bull.

Postby Till-Hill » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:40 am

Fire Sweep Ranch wrote:I would never use an Angus bull on my simmentals.... there are too many good calving ease simmentals bulls I can use instead!
My heifers have produced calves worthy of selling as seedstock. I have posted numerous pictures of our Optomizer heifer, out of a first calf heifer. She is due Oct 1st to Elevate. You should not be producing throw away calves if you are a good purebred breeder. Know your genetics, match your cattle. That is why we AI, I can match each heifer to the bull that will best cross with her.

Only reason we do is to shy away from Legacy/Shear Force. And we are mostly SimAngus. Another reason why is our cattle are getting to little. I can use a 6+ frame Angus. Not many 6+ frame Simmentals calving ease.

On the hole idea of not keeping heifers out of heifers. You folks are loosing some of the best genetics on your farm. I wish I had room for more. I'd buy your heifers out of heifers at a discount then since they ain't no good, and if they had some chrome on them I could buy them real cheap.

We just sold a bred heifer last winter that was a 5th generation heifer out of a heifer. Best heifer we had that year.

We have used a lot of sexed semen in the past. We try to get heifers out of heifers. Yes they may be a tick smaller at weaning but it's a long time till breeding season!
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Re: Broadway AI bull.

Postby Stocker Steve » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:00 am

[quote="Till-Hill"] Only reason we do is to shy away from Legacy/Shear Force. quote]

Why do you avoid Shear Force lines?
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Re: Broadway AI bull.

Postby Till-Hill » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:48 am

Stocker Steve wrote:
Till-Hill wrote: Only reason we do is to shy away from Legacy/Shear Force. quote]

Why do you avoid Shear Force lines?

Already have enough. And still have shear force semen on shear force and last 2/3 bulls have been from hooks with at least a shot or two of legacy
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Re: Broadway AI bull.

Postby Fire Sweep Ranch » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:29 pm

Had a Broadway today. Two weeks early, and 30 pounds. A heifer calf. Dam is a heifer herself, embryo, Broker sired. Negative calving ease, 4 pound birth weight epd. Glad everything worked out, except now heifer and calf are in the barn until I am sure she nurses without assistance. My experience with Broadway calves have been good so far, maybe too small!
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Re: Broadway AI bull.

Postby Fire Sweep Ranch » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:17 pm

Here is an updated picture of that Broadway calf we had, we call her Mouse. She and her Broker dam are doing great. They got kicked out the next day, when we saw Mouse aggressively nursing her dam. She may be small, but she does not lack enthusiasm! Her dam seems to have a picture perfect udder too.... the pair will be sold in our fall sale this December. She herself is an embryo we raised, sired by Broker out of the SOSF Joy's Shadow cow. We have a fall heifer from that same batch of embryos we are keeping.


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Re: Broadway AI bull.

Postby Cada22 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:58 am

I am strongly considering Broadway for my Angus/Holstein cross heifers after they calve in the Fall. Is the 26 milk epd too high here though?
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