Flushing

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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: Flushing

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:09 pm

No problem with depth. He can add frame to some, but they also get the rib & depth needed.
The red calf is "Eliza". She is a Shock Force embryo calf out of my Miss Power Lass. She is an early Sept, and the black bull calf is Oct 28.
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Re: Flushing

Postby midTN_Brangusman » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:20 am

gizmom wrote:I will be honest I have not looked at ratio of heifers vs bulls based on egg quality. I will go through the records to see, very good observation! I can tell you without checking records on two of the cows 6R109 we put in six eggs got 4 bulls and one heifer. 0524 put in 9 fresh eggs got 8 bulls and 1 heifer. 0524 8 frozen eggs got 4 bulls and 3 heifers. I don’t remember what grade the eggs were but will check that as well.

Gizmom


Debbie,

Is there a big difference in conception of grade 1 vs grade 2 eggs?

Thanks,
Clint
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Re: Flushing

Postby gizmom » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:07 am

Clint

Not if the twos are put in fresh, but you lose some % points on two’s when they have been frozen. When we flush if we have recips available we put all the two’s in and freeze the ones. Others may have different opinions on this but it is what we have found works best for us.

Gizmom
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: Flushing

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:04 pm

That is what I have been told. Supposedly, "2's" don't freeze & thaw as well??
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Re: Flushing

Postby gizmom » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:39 pm

I had a chance today to look at our ET list from last year to check on # of heifers on #2 eggs vs #1 and found I don't have much to compare with. We put in a total of 34 eggs last year which resulted in 25 calves, of those we had

A total of 6 #2 eggs
Two were purchased grade 2 sexed HC got one HC out of these two eggs.
4 bull calves
So five out of 6 eggs stuck.

A total of 28 #1 eggs resulted in

11 Bull calves
9 Heifer calves

This doesn't give us a lot of #2's to compare with but it sure doesn't make me think that #2 eggs give more heifers, since the only heifer I did get was out of a HC sexed embryo. We will be putting in around the same number of eggs this year so I will sure be looking at the numbers again. But I need to head to the farm for the pm breeding now so don't have time to research any farther right now. It is an idea that has me wanting to explore the possibilities.

gizmom
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Re: Flushing

Postby WinterSpringsFarm » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:04 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:I LOVE my Milestones. They make GREAT dams.
I was always told that the embryo's are graded on "maturity" and that the male embryos tend to be further developed than the females. No science, just what I've heard.


Jeanne, that's what I'm hoping for. I want to make cows with this mating and I figure Milestone x Steel Force should do it.

As for the semen.... Greg Stewart of SSC took good care of me. Of the people I talked to he was the only guy that had any.
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Re: Flushing

Postby SchenkAngusFarm » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:52 am

gizmom wrote:I had a chance today to look at our ET list from last year to check on # of heifers on #2 eggs vs #1 and found I don't have much to compare with. We put in a total of 34 eggs last year which resulted in 25 calves, of those we had

A total of 6 #2 eggs
Two were purchased grade 2 sexed HC got one HC out of these two eggs.
4 bull calves
So five out of 6 eggs stuck.

A total of 28 #1 eggs resulted in

11 Bull calves
9 Heifer calves

This doesn't give us a lot of #2's to compare with but it sure doesn't make me think that #2 eggs give more heifers, since the only heifer I did get was out of a HC sexed embryo. We will be putting in around the same number of eggs this year so I will sure be looking at the numbers again. But I need to head to the farm for the pm breeding now so don't have time to research any farther right now. It is an idea that has me wanting to explore the possibilities.

gizmom


That's great info. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Flushing

Postby midTN_Brangusman » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:40 pm

gizmom wrote:Clint

Not if the twos are put in fresh, but you lose some % points on two’s when they have been frozen. When we flush if we have recips available we put all the two’s in and freeze the ones. Others may have different opinions on this but it is what we have found works best for us.

Gizmom


Thank you for the info!
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Re: Flushing

Postby NEFarmwife » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:00 pm

gizmom wrote:I had a chance today to look at our ET list from last year to check on # of heifers on #2 eggs vs #1 and found I don't have much to compare with. We put in a total of 34 eggs last year which resulted in 25 calves, of those we had

A total of 6 #2 eggs
Two were purchased grade 2 sexed HC got one HC out of these two eggs.
4 bull calves
So five out of 6 eggs stuck.

A total of 28 #1 eggs resulted in

11 Bull calves
9 Heifer calves

This doesn't give us a lot of #2's to compare with but it sure doesn't make me think that #2 eggs give more heifers, since the only heifer I did get was out of a HC sexed embryo. We will be putting in around the same number of eggs this year so I will sure be looking at the numbers again. But I need to head to the farm for the pm breeding now so don't have time to research any farther right now. It is an idea that has me wanting to explore the possibilities.

gizmom



I was revisiting this post and had a question for you. Ours were bad this year. We had 2 of 5 embryos stick and only 1 survived (internal bleeding, got stepped on)... I notice you have really good conception results. Do you mind sharing how you set yours up for recips? Wondering if we need to do something a bit different on when we actually do transfer.
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Re: Flushing

Postby NonTypicalCPA » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:33 am

I’m interested as well in the setup for fresh versus frozen. I’ve got 4 cows I’m thinking about putting Wagyu embryos in this fall. Do the cows need to be in heat to implant?
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Re: Flushing

Postby NEFarmwife » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:46 pm

NonTypicalCPA wrote:I’m interested as well in the setup for fresh versus frozen. I’ve got 4 cows I’m thinking about putting Wagyu embryos in this fall. Do the cows need to be in heat to implant?


You implant the eggs after heat, typically a week after because you need the embryo to match the same cycle as the donor when she was flushed and those eggs became embryos.

We have a good embryologist and good conditioned cows. Scratching my head on conception with embryos we purchased because our own embryos had a much better conception rate.

If I ever purchase embryos again, I’ll have a 50% guarantee. I know death after birth isn’t their problem. Just frustrated.

I’d however, love to have gizmoms conception rates.
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Re: Flushing

Postby gizmom » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:52 pm

I had not looked at this thread in awhile, sorry for not responding sooner. This breeding season we implanted 33 embryos. We didn’t have any donors ready to flush so no fresh eggs just frozen. We manually palpated and called 21 safe with an ET calf or 63% conception a big drop from last years conception. In all honesty last year was unbelievable and we had no expectations of repeating that % again. The recips were managed the same as in past years. We manage the recips to be in good body condition and they are on a chelated mineral program. The one major difference between this year and last was we had a cow ready to flush last year so nine of the embryos used last year were fresh. This year we used 22 grade 1 eggs and 11 grade 2. We had 16 number 1’s stick and 5 number 2’s stick. If I did the math correctly that would mean a 72% conception rate on grade 1’s and a 45% conception on grade 2’s. Keep in mind this was using manual palpation we will dna test all calves to confirm. As far as setting up the recips we used the same protocol on recips as we use for our AI program. The 7 day timed protocol then eggs are pun in recips 7 days after they cycle. I think that covers everything.

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Re: Flushing

Postby Franke » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:53 am

We use the same 7 day protocol for the recips. We had 1 out of three stay in grade twos this year and 20 out of 26 on grade 1’s. If we don’t see the recips come into heat they don’t get used and our embryologist isn’t afraid to pass on a cow he doesn’t think feels right. But weather and body condition and stress levels can all change year to year. Last year we went 3 for 3 on grade 2’s with two heifers and that same mating gave us 1 for 3 with a bull this year. We had two bulls out of three fresh eggs last year and their flushmates that were frozen was a bull and heifer this year both times out of three. A good year for us but we always want to do better.
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Re: Flushing

Postby Franke » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:09 am

We also record which cows don’t come around and which cows get passed on and which cows don’t stick so that if there are ones that just aren’t working we aren’t throwing money away on them.
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Re: Flushing

Postby gizmom » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:32 am

Franke

I agree if a cow doesn’t take an egg once we will give her a second chance if she doesn’t take a second time we quit using her. The cost of ET work is to high to throw away eggs on cows that are not working. Not to mention the cost and time involved in setting them up. We have two cows at the embryologist facility now, he flushed both once so far. One cow did really good producing 8 eggs this was the best result we have ever had on this cow. The first flush was to a bull we owned that is now deceased Coleman EXT 6149. We have 7 calves out of the same mating on the ground right now and they are just flat out good. The other cow only produced one egg, this cow usually averages 7 eggs per flush so I don’t know what happened with that one. The first flush on her was also to 6149, we have a first calf heifer out of that mating that is one of the top bred heifers in the pen. She has a heifer calf on her side that is really good has maintained condition and bred back so checking all of the boxes thus far. The next flush on both cows will be using sexed heifer semen out of Extension. We have never used sexed semen before so hopefully it works out ok. The plan is to flush both three times then bring them home. If 0524 starts producing one more time to 6149 I really want to make some more females out of that mating.

Edited to add

NEfarmwife

I won’t purchase without a 50% guarantee, the guarantee usually stipulates that you use a certified embryologist. Also if the eggs are IVF your conception rate will go down and most sellers will not give you a 50% guarantee on IVF eggs.

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