Bull comparisons

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Lazy M
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Bull comparisons

Postby Lazy M » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:15 pm

Already thinking about my spring breeding and I'm trying to narrow it down between these 3:
https://bullsearch.absglobal.com/en-us/ ... 6/expanded
My goal is to create good, functional commercial replacements. I'll have a group of 2nd calf cows and heifers to breed (about 20 of each). I had thought that I'd use Hickok on the heifers and Consensus on the cows; but I think that Black Pearl could offer alot, too..
Please let me know your thoughts about how you'd proceed.
BTW: Hickok is priced at $25 a straw, Pearl and Consensus are both $20
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Ky hills
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Re: Bull comparisons

Postby Ky hills » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:43 pm

No direct experience with any of those bulls, but for what it's worth they are probably all good solid choices. Consensus has been around a while and seems to be pretty well received. I considered Black Pearl for use last year, but then didn't AI any.
I like BP in that the program that bred him, promotes their herd as acclimated to fescue pastures. Also many of their bulls seem to have a little more frame size that I like. For the semen cost, unless I were just really wanting to use the more expensive bull, or an out cross for a registered herd, I would probably just go with Black Pearl or Consensus.
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Re: Bull comparisons

Postby frieghttrain » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:00 pm

Ky hills wrote:No direct experience with any of those bulls, but for what it's worth they are probably all good solid choices. Consensus has been around a while and seems to be pretty well received. I considered Black Pearl for use last year, but then didn't AI any.
I like BP in that the program that bred him, promotes their herd as acclimated to fescue pastures. Also many of their bulls seem to have a little more frame size that I like. For the semen cost, unless I were just really wanting to use the more expensive bull, or an out cross for a registered herd, I would probably just go with Black Pearl or Consensus.

Same
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Midtenn
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Re: Bull comparisons

Postby Midtenn » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:11 pm

I like all three of those, based on just online research, sales reports, etc. not seen them in person.

Only one I have hands on experience is black pearl. I have 3 bulls and 2 heifer calves growing like weeds. One heifer came a little small but they all look good and the bull calves look good as well.
Birth weights on heifers 57 , 66
Bw on bulls 72, 78 , and one by a commercial charX cow not weighed but 80+ I guess
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Re: Bull comparisons

Postby jscunn » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:46 pm

Have 2 Black Pearl daughters, oldest is 3 yrs old. Concieved to AI both times. Plenty of milk but not too much, udder good shorter teats than dam. They arent small.. Slick haired fescue cattle.
The only other Black Pearl that we currently have is a yearling open heifer. She is very good. Purchased this fall.

Seen the bull himself a couple of times, moves well, feet good, DLT, alittle dirty fronted. Havent used him much, used alot of his sire and found something else.

Dont have any experience with the other two sires.
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Re: Bull comparisons

Postby Air gator » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:33 pm

You have done your homework. I think 7229 is the best bang for your buck anywhere.
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Re: Bull comparisons

Postby SchenkAngusFarm » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:53 am

I like consensus the best out of the lot.
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blacksnake
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Re: Bull comparisons

Postby blacksnake » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:06 am

Jscunn
I’m assuming you are referring to lot 186 to go with your previous BP daughter. I thought the comparisons of the three BP daughters lot 186,187,188 was interesting. All three were within 20 days of age. Lot 186 and 188 each weighed 1155 lbs. Lot 187 weighed 1005. Lot 186 had ww epd of 47 and genomic %tile of 65%, lot 187 was 70 and genomic of 5%, lot 188 was 61 and genomic of 36. Looking at yw epds, lot 186 was 96 and genomic of 32, lot 187 was 126 and genomic of 7, lot 188 was 96 and genomic of 50 percentile. I would have expected lot 187 would have had the higher sale day weight. I knew genomic scores affect epds but didn’t realize how much. I’m also assuming these were all in same contemporary group. Just found it interesting.
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Re: Bull comparisons

Postby jscunn » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:29 pm

Blacksnake,
187 and 188 were black pearl granddaughters (sired by a black pearl son) 186 was a black pearl daughter. All three caught my attention when the catalog first came out. Actually since we own a maternal sister to 186 she was on the radar much earlier than that. 186 was above 60 for WW and above 110 for YW EPD before the genomics came back. Genomics really hurt her growth EPDs for some reason. It happens, it is probably the reason she was in our price range so it worked out I guess. I personally thought all the heifers were pretty good, the 187 being a pretty plain heifer, she had the best EPDs and probably my favorite pedigree of the three.

I am not a big fan of how much impact genomics have on EPDs. I dont have a tremendous amount of faith in the growth genomics personally. Shame a heifer like 186 that jumped thru almost every hoop has a set of pretty average EPDs mostly due to bad genomics.
WW ratio 104 EPD 48 (top 60%)

YW ratio 109 EPD 97 (top 35%)

IMF ratio 124 EPD 0.69 (top 35%)

REA ratio 102 EPD 0.27 (top 85%)

It is interesting when you can put all the tools together (performance, pedigree, genomics, and live evaluation) and decide which ones are the most important to you. We all put different values on each.
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Re: Bull comparisons

Postby Bovine breeder » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:07 pm

Can’t go wrong with any of these bulls. I’ve been using Hickok, haven’t pulled the trigger on black pearl but I like him a lot. I will say from an EPD standpoint, BP and Hickok are nearly identical.
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Lazy M
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Re: Bull comparisons

Postby Lazy M » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:20 am

Bovine breeder wrote:Can’t go wrong with any of these bulls. I’ve been using Hickok, haven’t pulled the trigger on black pearl but I like him a lot. I will say from an EPD standpoint, BP and Hickok are nearly identical.

How have you liked the hickok calves? Haven't seen any first hand.
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Re: Bull comparisons

Postby Son of Butch » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:10 am

Lazy M wrote:thinking about my spring breeding and I'm trying to narrow it down between these 3:
https://bullsearch.absglobal.com/en-us/ ... 6/expanded
My goal is to create good, functional commercial replacements.
I'll have a group of 2nd calf cows and heifers to breed (about 20 of each).
I had thought that I'd use Hickok on the heifers and Consensus on the cows
but I think that Black Pearl could offer alot, too..
Please let me know your thoughts about how you'd proceed.
BTW: Hickok is priced at $25 a straw, Pearl and Consensus are both $20

I like your idea of Consensus and Hickok, as using a proven father and proven son combo should give you the more
uniform cow herd going forward long term. Then in a few years a bloodline that compliments them.
Uniformity makes life easier than having to play mix and match with sire choices each breeding season.
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Lazy M
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Re: Bull comparisons

Postby Lazy M » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:39 am

Son of Butch wrote:
Lazy M wrote:thinking about my spring breeding and I'm trying to narrow it down between these 3:
https://bullsearch.absglobal.com/en-us/ ... 6/expanded
My goal is to create good, functional commercial replacements.
I'll have a group of 2nd calf cows and heifers to breed (about 20 of each).
I had thought that I'd use Hickok on the heifers and Consensus on the cows
but I think that Black Pearl could offer alot, too..
Please let me know your thoughts about how you'd proceed.
BTW: Hickok is priced at $25 a straw, Pearl and Consensus are both $20

I like your idea of Consensus and Hickok, as using a proven father and proven son combo should give you the more
uniform cow herd going forward long term. Then in a few years a bloodline that compliments them.
Uniformity makes life easier than having to play mix and match with sire choices each breeding season.

Thanks for the input. I think I will stick with my original plans with Hickok and Consensus. Their offspring should match up really well; smaller more compact cows. I'm afraid that BP calves will be rangy and stick out too much from the group.
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Re: Bull comparisons

Postby Bovine breeder » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:02 am

Lazy M wrote:
Bovine breeder wrote:Can’t go wrong with any of these bulls. I’ve been using Hickok, haven’t pulled the trigger on black pearl but I like him a lot. I will say from an EPD standpoint, BP and Hickok are nearly identical.

How have you liked the hickok calves? Haven't seen any first hand.


Used him in the spring and a couple weeks ago on the falls so I’m still anxiously waiting. They have some sons of his pictured on Bull search, they look great
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Re: Bull comparisons

Postby hornedfrogbbq » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:49 am

I mentioned on another thread that we have about 100 hickok calves this spring. I'll update as the year goes but we've been super happy so far. If you look at the current Connealy sale catalog, look at how many cows they have in their herd that are out of Consensus. Old bull. Proven cow maker.
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