Thawing semen

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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: Thawing semen

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:05 am

Yeah, it seems to me that even if you were deaf, dumb or blind - you should get 50% conception - but that won't work.
It is really frustrating, because, like I said, he is extremely detailed. Super frustrating.
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Re: Thawing semen

Postby Bright Raven » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:14 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Yeah, it seems to me that even if you were deaf, dumb or blind - you should get 50% conception - but that won't work.
It is really frustrating, because, like I said, he is extremely detailed. Super frustrating.


I don't know. I think sometimes people think they are through the cervix but are in the fornix. Don't be too hard on Phil.
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Re: Thawing semen

Postby TexasBred » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:20 am

Wife has always bred the cattle on our places. She will thaw in warm water as taught but once she has the semen loaded, she it into her bra....Yep.....bra as in cleavage...until she's ready to insert in cow...Guess by the time she inserts it the semen is perfect based on her conception rates.
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Re: Thawing semen

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:31 am

No No - I'm not upset with Phil at all. I think his technique is really good. I just know he REALLY REALLY wants to do it but knows that we can't afford the time for him practicing.
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Re: Thawing semen

Postby True Grit Farms » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:05 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:No No - I'm not upset with Phil at all. I think his technique is really good. I just know he REALLY REALLY wants to do it but knows that we can't afford the time for him practicing.

Do you know anyone that does AI for dairies? A friend that does dairies would let me position the gun in as many cows that I felt up to. I couldn't deposit the semen but the practice got me to where I know when the tip is in the uterine body.
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Re: Thawing semen

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:42 pm

That's the thing, I'm 90% sure he is in the uterus, he goes thru the 3 rings.
Now this is going to sound dumb, can you position the gun, take your arm out & someone else goes in to feel that it is in the right place? Wouldn't that be difficult to keep the gun in the same position while switching arms - cow moves??
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Re: Thawing semen

Postby Bright Raven » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:47 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:That's the thing, I'm 90% sure he is in the uterus, he goes thru the 3 rings.
Now this is going to sound dumb, can you position the gun, take your arm out & someone else goes in to feel that it is in the right place? Wouldn't that be difficult to keep the gun in the same position while switching arms - cow moves??


They do it in the classes but those poor cows have been through such an ordeal after 2 days, they don't move. But yes. Our instructors would check us in that manner. It does not work everytime. If the cow or heifer is nervous, not going to work.
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Re: Thawing semen

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:56 pm

I know I saw my husband tons of time be in the right spot, cow moves, has to re-position.
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Re: Thawing semen

Postby Bright Raven » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:59 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:I know I saw my husband tons of time be in the right spot, cow moves, has to re-position.


Yes. It happens. It is frustrating on the ones that are difficult to thread. Get the tip exactly where it should be to deposit, cow moves, gun comes out of cervix, got to rethread
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Re: Thawing semen

Postby Fire Sweep Ranch » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:25 pm

TexasBred wrote:Wife has always bred the cattle on our places. She will thaw in warm water as taught but once she has the semen loaded, she it into her bra....Yep.....bra as in cleavage...until she's ready to insert in cow...Guess by the time she inserts it the semen is perfect based on her conception rates.


That is what I do also. Best place to keep it warm. We laugh and call it boob thawing!
On the other note, when we were getting horrible conceptions and could not figure out why (our thermos had a short, and was killing all the semen), I started to go straight from the tank, into the gun and into the cow. Our conceptions went back up, especially with Genex semen. We started breeding most of them that way. One time decided to use the thermos, went out in my bare feet (it was in the garage, on our freezer - next to the grooming chute where we bred the cows) to check the temp, and I got shocked! It was then that I figured out our electric thermos was bad!
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Re: Thawing semen

Postby wbvs58 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:57 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:
dun wrote:Tell him when he has a hold of the cervix to put his finger over the far end of it. When he feels the sheath touch his finger to deposit the semen.

Depositing the semen in the right spot is the easiest part of the whole AI deal. Getting the tip of the gun to the right spot can be a little tricky, but it's a no brainer when your in the sweet spot. If you go to far I was told your odds go down by 50%, I don't know this to be true?


I agree! But I better not give a name but a guy who knows AI as well as anyone can, told me that going too far which means horn breeding essentially, does not significantly reduce conception. He pointed to recent studies that used radioisotope imaging that showed in less than 2 hours the spermatozoa can move from one horn to the other. He said they don't say that in class but the recent studies indicate, the spermatozoa will occupy both horns regardless of deposition as long as it is on the uterine side of the cervix.

PS: the reason I don't provide a name is because this person teaches AI, they want students of the art to make an effort to deposit in the body of the uterus, not the horns.


That's interesting thanks Ron. My suspicion has been that may be the case, however this year I have been working hard on getting the site of deposition right.

Ken
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Re: Thawing semen

Postby bse » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:33 pm

when I started, Genex was just coming with the pocket thaw, I never did it, if it worked I think it would be the only thing used, I don't think it did because I never hear of it. So for me its by the book, I don't have a stop watch to make sure its been in the thaw long enough, but ive done enough till I think I know.
Have been fortunate enough to work with a guy that was on the team that developed the 95 degree thaw, he says letting it crystalize is the very worst thing that can happen to that straw, not saying thawing in a cow doesn't work apparently it does for some, im not gonna do it.
Ron im not buying the horn thing doesent matter, I know for me early on, going through the cervix wasn't that tough, placement was id go in the horns everytime, I either did exceptional or horrible, so right or wrong horn. If it didn't matter about placement after the cervix, that should be easy to teach when the gun slides deposit wherever. So for me im not buying that..
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Re: Thawing semen

Postby Bright Raven » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:40 pm

bse wrote:when I started, Genex was just coming with the pocket thaw, I never did it, if it worked I think it would be the only thing used, I don't think it did because I never hear of it. So for me its by the book, I don't have a stop watch to make sure its been in the thaw long enough, but ive done enough till I think I know.
Have been fortunate enough to work with a guy that was on the team that developed the 95 degree thaw, he says letting it crystalize is the very worst thing that can happen to that straw, not saying thawing in a cow doesn't work apparently it does for some, im not gonna do it.
Ron im not buying the horn thing doesent matter, I know for me early on, going through the cervix wasn't that tough, placement was id go in the horns everytime, I either did exceptional or horrible, so right or wrong horn. If it didn't matter about placement after the cervix, that should be easy to teach when the gun slides deposit wherever. So for me im not buying that..


Barry. Personally, I put it just on the uterine side of the last ring. But apparently, they used radioisotope tagged spermatozoa and used a detection device inserted in the rectum to detect where the spermatozoa had moved to. In 2 hours the motility of the spermatozoa had moved some into the horn opposite where the semen was placed. I did not read the study, I got a second hand version. Like I said, I don't horn breed.
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Re: Thawing semen

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:57 pm

No conception for nephew - bummer. He does put his finger over the end, then he backs up a little. I think he bred 4 and all 4 came back in.
And the others bred by tech are passing over. Also, vet put 5 embryos in with 1 repeat, waiting for that one to pass over.
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Re: Thawing semen

Postby Bright Raven » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:07 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:No conception for nephew - bummer. He does put his finger over the end, then he backs up a little. I think he bred 4 and all 4 came back in.
And the others bred by tech are passing over. Also, vet put 5 embryos in with 1 repeat, waiting for that one to pass over.


Jeanne. I don't know what to say. Clearly, he has a fault in his technique.
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