100% AI?

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Re: 100% AI?

Postby wbvs58 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:12 am

I synchronise my herd of 28 cows in staggered batches of 5-7 cows at a time because physically I am not capable of breeding any more than that at one time though with my programme I breed those showing oestrus 48hrs after cidr removed and remainder at 72 hrs which splits the workload. I get about 60% conception rate, I put the estrotect scratch patches on them about 2.5 weeks after the synchronised breeding and will pick up most of the rebreeds, I would estimate 80%, I keep an eye on them for another 3 wks a will pick up another one or two before putting a bull in. I always seem to get 2-3 to the cleenup bull though.

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Re: 100% AI?

Postby Bright Raven » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:14 am

Cdcollett wrote:On the tips & pointers, observed standing heats + 12 hours will get you your best success by far.


I breed 5 to 8 hours from the ONSET of standing estrus - important to remember onset. That takes a lot of heat detection to be able to put your best estimate on when she transitions from jumping to standing. Even in a closely observed herd, there is always some extrapolation as to when the cow first stood. I breed 5 to 8 hours after I reach a decision on the approximate time of ONSET of standing estrus.

The SS book says the highest conception is at 5 to 8 hours from onset.
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ez14.
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby ez14. » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:01 am

Cdcollett wrote:
ez14. wrote:First service conception? Or % cows getting pregnant before the breeding deadline is over?

And yes with gender select semon the cull rate is going up all the time. All the more reason for a cow to conceive early because there might be 3 promising young heifers looking to take her place

I don’t think either number would be what southernultrablack is after but the first service would be what I’m referring too.
I will be honest I can look through the records and there are a lot of cows with 2 and a few with 3 breedings before they conceived. There are some with more breedings then that but they need to have a good reason to stick around
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby True Grit Farms » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:24 am

ez14. wrote:
Cdcollett wrote:
ez14. wrote:First service conception? Or % cows getting pregnant before the breeding deadline is over?

And yes with gender select semon the cull rate is going up all the time. All the more reason for a cow to conceive early because there might be 3 promising young heifers looking to take her place

I don’t think either number would be what southernultrablack is after but the first service would be what I’m referring too.
I will be honest I can look through the records and there are a lot of cows with 2 and a few with 3 breedings before they conceived. There are some with more breedings then that but they need to have a good reason to stick around

Have you figured out your percentage for the first AI service?
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby Cdcollett » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:26 am

And they don’t want their dairy bulls around while they do it. None of that seems to be a pro or con for a small non dairy producer that should want a set of calves that are the same age. It’s an apples and oranges comparison.

Pros of 100% ai
1. Breeding to a bull that has the desired traits
2. Not handling or feeding your own bull
3. If you were perfect at catching them at the right time and settling them in one round the cost would be lower.
4. It can be rewarding when your decision is a good one. The bad ones are educational as well.

Cons
1. You won’t get 100%
2. Much more time on your part
3. Added stress to cattle when you do protocols & send them to the chute. Minor bur most wrecks seem to happen in the chute

There’s others both ways. I prefer to mix between ai and cleanup but I have the luxury of both registered and commercial cattle so selling by the pound with the commercial group isn’t that bad.
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby ez14. » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:26 am

True Grit Farms wrote:
ez14. wrote:
Cdcollett wrote: I don’t think either number would be what southernultrablack is after but the first service would be what I’m referring too.
I will be honest I can look through the records and there are a lot of cows with 2 and a few with 3 breedings before they conceived. There are some with more breedings then that but they need to have a good reason to stick around

Have you figured out your percentage for the first AI service?
no but I'd say combining first and second service we get probably 85 % and the rest either settle on a later breeding or are culled
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby southernultrablack » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:52 am

ez14. wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:
ez14. wrote: I will be honest I can look through the records and there are a lot of cows with 2 and a few with 3 breedings before they conceived. There are some with more breedings then that but they need to have a good reason to stick around

Have you figured out your percentage for the first AI service?
no but I'd say combining first and second service we get probably 85 % and the rest either settle on a later breeding or are culled

That brings up a good point, if they don’t stick in 3 cycles of AI, should they hit the road? I’ve heard some cows won’t stick to AI, but will stick first time with a bull. So are the cows that stick superior in fertility?
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby Bright Raven » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:08 pm

southernultrablack wrote:
ez14. wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:Have you figured out your percentage for the first AI service?
no but I'd say combining first and second service we get probably 85 % and the rest either settle on a later breeding or are culled

That brings up a good point, if they don’t stick in 3 cycles of AI, should they hit the road? I’ve heard some cows won’t stick to AI, but will stick first time with a bull. So are the cows that stick superior in fertility?


I don't know if I really believe that a cow cannot stick to AI. IMO, there is a factor somewhere in the program that is making AI difficult. Maybe endophyte fescue - certainly makes AI more difficult for Fire Sweep. Maybe poor minerals. I use Vitaferm ConceptAid. It says ConceptAid for a reason. Maybe too much stress in some handling facilities. It could be a lot of factors. At the end of the day, you got to cull the ones that do not perform in your program.
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby BryanM » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:03 pm

Well Southern, I am doing the exact same thing only have 10 cows tho. I am actually on day 20th after bred ai on a timed cycle 20 days ago. I currently have only observed one in standing heat on a heifer that I ai'd on the timed cycle. I did thro patches on all my cows in case I missed any visual standing heat.

So I hope I didn't just jinx myself. I usually do an ultra sound day 60. But my goals are the same as yours as far as having a tight window, but I usually always have a stragler or 2. This will be my 3rd year aiing my own cattle and we are building the herd the slow way.
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby ez14. » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:25 pm

southernultrablack wrote:
ez14. wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:Have you figured out your percentage for the first AI service?
no but I'd say combining first and second service we get probably 85 % and the rest either settle on a later breeding or are culled

That brings up a good point, if they don’t stick in 3 cycles of AI, should they hit the road? I’ve heard some cows won’t stick to AI, but will stick first time with a bull. So are the cows that stick superior in fertility?

So you got sperm and an egg they meet in the right conditions and you have conception! How they got there doesn't matter. A bull doesn't have 100 % conception and your not going to get 100 % conception. But if you have the time and a good handling setup you can definitely make it work

What I would do is set everyone up for a timed AI then give them 2 chances on the following natural heats for a total of 3 chances to conceive. That puts everyone getting bred inside of a 45 day breeding season. Anyone open after that should be shipped :2cents:
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:28 am

I used 100% AI for maybe 30+ years - with a 60 day window. Yes, we would have a cow or two open. Some would be bred and slip the calf later. But, you will have the exact same problem with using a bull. Unless you keep the bull with them year round, you will have open cows.
We went to AI'ing 42 days, then a clean up bull for 24 days. Makes life easier, but we still ended up with an open one or more. I am back to 100% AI for past two years.
We calve spring & fall, so if I have a good cow come up open, I can give her a 2nd chance and only lose 6 months on her. Open again, shipped. I don't have any "border-line" cows sitting around waiting for an excuse to get rid of. I have to think long & hard about shipping one of my cows, because they are hard to replace. If I have a bad one, she gets shipped right away. I do have some cows that have minor problems (like a problem with a foot or don't like their udder), so I put an embryo in them, because I don't want their genetics to continue.
AI is a commitment of TIME. You have to decide if the value of your calves out-weigh the effort.
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby True Grit Farms » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:31 am

We do some AI but mostly live cover with bulls. A GOOD cow delivers a calf every 12 months or less no excuse. Good cows need no excuses they just do their job and move on to the next one.
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby Ebenezer » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:10 am

Cdcollett wrote:And they don’t want their dairy bulls around while they do it. None of that seems to be a pro or con for a small non dairy producer that should want a set of calves that are the same age. It’s an apples and oranges comparison.

Pros of 100% ai
1. Breeding to a bull that has the desired traits
2. Not handling or feeding your own bull
3. If you were perfect at catching them at the right time and settling them in one round the cost would be lower.
4. It can be rewarding when your decision is a good one. The bad ones are educational as well.

Cons
1. You won’t get 100%
2. Much more time on your part
3. Added stress to cattle when you do protocols & send them to the chute. Minor bur most wrecks seem to happen in the chute
Lost income on repeat breedings due to lack of calf from first exposure and additional AI costs and labor.
There’s others both ways. I prefer to mix between ai and cleanup but I have the luxury of both registered and commercial cattle so selling by the pound with the commercial group isn’t that bad.
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby Bright Raven » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:06 am

True Grit Farms wrote:We do some AI but mostly live cover with bulls. A GOOD cow delivers a calf every 12 months or less no excuse. Good cows need no excuses they just do their job and move on to the next one.


100% agree. If I have a cow that does not take during my AI breeding season - she is gone. I will cull for bad fertility before anything else because I will not tolerate having calves out of my calving season.
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby True Grit Farms » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:17 am

Bright Raven wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:We do some AI but mostly live cover with bulls. A GOOD cow delivers a calf every 12 months or less no excuse. Good cows need no excuses they just do their job and move on to the next one.


100% agree. If I have a cow that does not take during my AI breeding season - she is gone. I will cull for bad fertility before anything else because I will not tolerate having calves out of my calving season.

I was surprised about you on that one but there's no other way to be 100% AI, and to get a 100% bred sometimes. With my AI and heat detection skills I'd end up out of the cow business.
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