Straightbreeding Angus

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.

Lazy M
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Re: Straightbreeding Angus

Postby Lazy M » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:30 pm

Rafter S wrote:
Post Oak wrote:
Rafter S wrote:
Have you considered giving Brangus a try? You'll get black calves, with many (maybe all) of the advantages of Beefmaster.

I like Brangus and they bring a lot to the table. The problem with the ones that have been around is docility. A few have been docile, but most have been snorters and pawers.


There are plenty of gentle ones. Don't give up on the breed because of a few bad ones. Mine are as gentle as anything out there.

Don't know much about brangus myself but there are a bunch of nice looking ones selling tomorrow:
http://superiorlivestock.com/onlineVide ... dium=email
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Re: Straightbreeding Angus

Postby wacocowboy » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:21 am

Post Oak wrote:
Rafter S wrote:
Post Oak wrote:I love Herefords,Beefmasters,and think about Charolais sometimes,but it is hard from a dollar and cents point of view to stray from straightbreeding Angus. Again for the third year in a row, my solid blacks bought .15 to .20 cents more a pound than the black brockles,baldies, and blaze faces.
My reasons for straightbreeding Angus are:
1. More money at sale barn
2. A guy with a one bull like me can use the same bull on heifers and cows
3. A wide availability of Angus bulls in my area and multiple bloodlines to choose from with fair prices
4. Any heifer from a good cow can be kept for a replacement unlike terminal or maternal systems
5. Angus have the largest database as a breed

I'm not trying to bash any breeds. If all calves bought the same at the sale barn, I would probably just run Horned Herefords and Beefmasters.


Have you considered giving Brangus a try? You'll get black calves, with many (maybe all) of the advantages of Beefmaster.

I like Brangus and they bring a lot to the table. The problem with the ones that have been around is docility. A few have been docile, but most have been snorters and pawers.


Lots of gentle Brangus. I have probably been snorted and pawed at more by straight Angus bulls than Brangus. If you are interested Beefmaster comes in Black too.
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ClinchValley
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Re: Straightbreeding Angus

Postby ClinchValley » Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:33 am

Why not grow more pounds. Unless you sell registered feeders. Took 10 calves this week. Two FB Simmi's, oldest of the group, were lighter than crossbred calves two and three months younger. Ranged from 8-11 months. To be honest i was pretty aggravated. I now completely understand the reason for crossbreeding.
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Re: Straightbreeding Angus

Postby dun » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:26 am

ClinchValley wrote:Why not grow more pounds. Unless you sell registered feeders. Took 10 calves this week. Two FB Simmi's, oldest of the group, were lighter than crossbred calves two and three months younger. Ranged from 8-11 months. To be honest i was pretty aggravated. I now completely understand the reason for crossbreeding.

Only one problem with this concept. If you are a seedstock producer you will sell some straightbred feeder calves. Goes with the territory of seedstock production. Most time, not all, a crossbred heifer/cow will sell for less than a registered heifer/cow. This past year as we cut down we have sold most of our registered red angus but still have a lot of the crossbreds. They just didn;t/wouldn;t bring as much and the demand wasn't as high. Our crossbred female animals are as high a quality as the registered but the buyers want to also be able to sell registered cows/bulls.
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Re: Straightbreeding Angus

Postby WalnutCrest » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:19 am

Everybody has a different business model. The trick is knowing what you're doing and why, and not to get sidetracked by someone else somewhere else doing something different and telling you you're doing it wrong.
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Re: Straightbreeding Angus

Postby Air gator » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:26 am

I think if you develop animals with the end product in mind then it shouldn't matter the color.
I think black cattle sell more based on the assumption that the qualify of the carcass is better.
The number one reason why cattle don't qualify for Certified Angus beef is a lack of marbling.
I believe if you have a choice between two bulls and both are similar then you choose the one with the marbling.
I think it is a mistake to breed to bulls that are well below breed average for marbling. No matter how attractive they are. I am trying to fight the urge to breed to some of these bulls that really look good on the outside.
I understand that animals still have to be able to walk, reproduce and stay in the herd for a while.
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Re: Straightbreeding Angus

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:11 am

All breeding decisions should be based on your market and how you make the most money. My steers are my "sure" sale each & every year. But - they are NOT my money makers. So, "pretty" comes into my breeding decision, along with structure, easy keeping, muscling, structure.
Obviously, I haven't wondered to far of path, because my feedlot buyer takes my steers, sight unseen & raves about them. He is now buying from a guy that only uses my raised bulls for his herd.
Hard for me to picture old fashion FULLBLOOD simmentals did not outweigh crossbreds of any breed. They are/used to be beasts!! If you meant Purebred - yes that could be possible, there are some sorry bloodlines out there.
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Re: Straightbreeding Angus

Postby True Grit Farms » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:17 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:All breeding decisions should be based on your market and how you make the most money. My steers are my "sure" sale each & every year. But - they are NOT my money makers. So, "pretty" comes into my breeding decision, along with structure, easy keeping, muscling, structure.
Obviously, I haven't wondered to far of path, because my feedlot buyer takes my steers, sight unseen & raves about them. He is now buying from a guy that only uses my raised bulls for his herd.
Hard for me to picture old fashion FULLBLOOD simmentals did not outweigh crossbreds of any breed. They are/used to be beasts!! If you meant Purebred - yes that could be possible, there are some sorry bloodlines out there.

Turning Simmental cattle predominantly black helped take the frame size down also.
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ClinchValley
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Re: Straightbreeding Angus

Postby ClinchValley » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:23 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Hard for me to picture old fashion FULLBLOOD simmentals did not outweigh crossbreds of any breed. They are/used to be beasts!! If you meant Purebred - yes that could be possible, there are some sorry bloodlines out there.


That's probably more like it.
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Re: Straightbreeding Angus

Postby bse » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:50 am

I don't think you have to cross breed just for pounds, you can outcross within a breed and do the same.
Air Gator I tend to agree with marbling to a point. If you retain ownership then yes I think that could really increase profits, but for the average producer around here they go to the sale barn so the only one that benefits is the feedlot, carcass bulls tend to be a little narrow, and lighter. For seedstock producers I think you need a variation of different type bulls, growth, heifer, balanced, carcass.
For most commercial producers its pounds.....
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Re: Straightbreeding Angus

Postby Post Oak » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:19 am

A good friend of mine runs a Braunangus bull in which the angus half is some high growth GAR bull. He took a few heifers up to my place last year to breed to my Angus and bull and took an old cow of mine down the road to breed/experiment with his Braunangus bull. My Paxton sired Angus bull bred all four of his heifers that sired by old Prototype sired Angus bull. The calves off of the heifers were born a touch later than his Braunangus sired calves this year, weighed less at selling time, but brought close to what the Braunangus sired calves did gross money. I don't understand this because the Braunangus sired calves were straight backed muscled meat wagons that look to be the epitome of terminal bred feeder calves.
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Re: Straightbreeding Angus

Postby Ebenezer » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:04 pm

In some locations, the eared cattle will always get docked. We raised some Brangus years ago to have excellent and heavier calves that sold for less total dollars than lighter Angus cattle. Didn't take long to figure that out. I'm sure other areas pay a premium but not around us.
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Re: Straightbreeding Angus

Postby cow pollinater » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:37 pm

I'm not an angus fan but if I were going to go to a single breed it's the only logical choice. Heterosis is a powerful tool but there comes a point where using it is counter productive because one breed is so far ahead that a cross can't match up even with heterosis. Holsteins, for example, milk so much better that even with added milk from heterosis you can't match what a pure holstein will do. Angus is getting there waaaay to quickly. I don't think it's the right way to go(and am not myself) but I can't fault others for making that choice.
If you go by breed average then Char is a great choice for terminal but after I factor in heterosis I can sit right here and find angus bulls that will beat what a char will do and the calves will sell better. If I wanted to keep it simple I'd probably run middle of the road angus and leave it at that.
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Re: Straightbreeding Angus

Postby elkwc » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:32 pm

We took cattle to a local sale barn last Friday. They sold around 3,000 hd. I walked the cat walks a few times and watched just a few sell. There was one group of nice 3-4 y/o bred Hereford cows that sold well. The only straight Herefords in the pens. Around 60% straight blacks, at least 30% black baldies, then 10% various mixes. Only a handful of Char crosses. 3 years ago I saw several but very few now and they are docked. A few of the Simmie white faces and less than 10 hd of limmie crosses. There was a few alleys I didn't walk. The Hereford black baldies topped the sale, the straight Angus blacks just behind them and everything else depending on quality 5 dollars a hundred or more behind. We can get as much growth out of our straight Angus as most get with their crosses. Do get a bump when crossed with good Herefords. Currently we have purchased some Hereford heifers and plan to buy some more and use our Angus bulls on them. In todays market in this area I feel you need to have an Angus base or use a good Angus bull on Hereford cows if you want to consistently sell at the top of the market. I know it varies by area and so every breeder has to do what sells best in their area. Only saw one bunch of straight Red Angus and one bunch of Red Angus crosses. So hard to get a good feel on them but they sold just back of the top straight black Angus.
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Re: Straightbreeding Angus

Postby Draper » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:34 am

Straightbreeding is just madness to me. At a bare minimum you could be backcrossing with Angus and either of the other solid patterned British breeds: Red angus or Shorthorn or breeding terminal to a black hided half blood angus. You start getting more than a quarter blood continental look in a calf, you’ll start seeing the discounts noted above,, warranted by the the typically poor quality grades associated with these cattle.
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