SAV America has a long way to go

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.
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Re: SAV America has a long way to go

Post by Brookhill Angus » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:09 am

Boot Jack Bulls wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:18 pm
Brookhill Angus wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:05 pm
Boot Jack Bulls wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:59 pm
Your plan works well for you. I can tell you it would not work in a northern environment where cows are not fed corn all winter and still expected to breed back in a timely fashion. Your program may work spectacularly for you, but by it's own virtue will limit the geographic market for your breeding stock when you are ready to sell it....
I understand, but my main focus is on females. I don’t consider myself a player in the seed stock business. I have some very nice bulls, but it’s my females that really shine bright.
So, you never plan to sell females? Or is the end game just to sell embryos?
Embryos.

I will sell females in time, but for now I want to keep them all. Those that aren’t the very best will certainly work well as recips.

With the technology available at Trans Ova I can pretty much eliminate bull calves completely. Right now I would prefer to have only females born, but doing that throughout the entire herd can get expensive, unless you use sexed semen on the entire herd, which limits my sire selection.

Another option is selling registered bred heifers that are confirmed pregnant via sexed semen, and also ultrasound to prove that they have a female calf. Kind of a two for one special. I’ve discussed this with buyers and they are very interested in this plan.

The seed stock biz is crowded, and the choices endless, not so much with high quality females, especially bred AI.


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Re: SAV America has a long way to go

Post by wbvs58 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:52 am

Your going to need a bit more country by the sound of it for all these females.

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Re: SAV America has a long way to go

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:04 am

wbvs58 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:52 am
Your going to need a bit more country by the sound of it for all these females.

Ken
He might have access to another farm not too far away. :D
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Re: SAV America has a long way to go

Post by 76 Bar » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:37 pm

They usually stop nursing at about 10-11 months, almost never do they exceed that, they lose interest.
I beg to differ. Don't know of any reputable seed stock breeder who'd opt to wean short yearlings.

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Re: SAV America has a long way to go

Post by Brookhill Angus » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:43 pm

76 Bar wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:37 pm
They usually stop nursing at about 10-11 months, almost never do they exceed that, they lose interest.
I beg to differ. Don't know of any reputable seed stock breeder who'd opt to wean short yearlings.
So what you are saying is that you judge the merit of the animal not on pedigree, genomically enhanced EPD's, proven parentage or phenotype, but only on when the animal was weaned.

With all due respect, some of you are very myopic on things that don't really matter, while overlooking things that have a tremendous impact on the quality of one's herd.

I could easily wean them all at 205 on the dot, and you would yawn. You sure wouldn't tell me good job. This really doesn't matter.
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Re: SAV America has a long way to go

Post by Brookhill Angus » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:03 pm

76 Bar wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:37 pm
They usually stop nursing at about 10-11 months, almost never do they exceed that, they lose interest.
I beg to differ. Don't know of any reputable seed stock breeder who'd opt to wean short yearlings.
I think it's important to further address your comment. as well as what Boot Jack asked me.

We can all look at how one runs their operation and pick it apart. You generalized, as I do, but I know the comment was intended for me.

Brookhill Angus is probably one of the most unconventional Angus operations in the country. We have biometric collars on our entire herd, and thus far are the only beef operation in the U.S. doing that, however not for long, an Angus operator in TN is about to install a full system for his herd, no it's not TT, if you follow certain Facebook forums I participate in, you will probably be able to find out who it is on your own.

We do AI combinations that nobody is doing, just this week we pulled this off.

369

Overall, from nutrition to genetics, to how they are cared for each day is highly customized. I'm really not concerned if I fit in with the "industry", in fact, the industry is going down the toilet right now, so why would I be concerned with following a business model that is getting hammered?

I think you would be surprised if you were privy to the conversations I have with potential clients, they are not sharing your sentiments.

The pedigree combinations that I'm working on take years to complete, buyers know that, and they do not want to put in the incredible amount of work to make it happen in their own herds, but buying embryos, and bulls from me that have certain pedigrees is something they can do, and quickly. Imagine it takes me years to create a Harvestor/America/Net Worth/Hoover Dam daughter, but you can get embryos from that daughter with some cold hard cash, implant them in your commercial recips, and then have what took me years to create in a short amount of time. It's highly appealing to a segment of the Angus crowd. Even more so to the folks in Argentina, Brazil, and Uruguay. Don't forget Canada and Australia. My market is not necessarily limited to Kentucky. Thank God!
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Re: SAV America has a long way to go

Post by sim.-ang.king » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:18 pm

Stroke stroke stroke
Why should I apologize for becoming a monster?
Did anyone apologize for making me one?

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Re: SAV America has a long way to go

Post by Brookhill Angus » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:58 pm

sim.-ang.king wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:18 pm
Stroke stroke stroke
Yawn, yawn, yawn.
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Re: SAV America has a long way to go

Post by Boot Jack Bulls » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:06 pm

Brookhill Angus wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:09 am
Boot Jack Bulls wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:18 pm
Brookhill Angus wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:05 pm


I understand, but my main focus is on females. I don’t consider myself a player in the seed stock business. I have some very nice bulls, but it’s my females that really shine bright.
So, you never plan to sell females? Or is the end game just to sell embryos?
Embryos.

I will sell females in time, but for now I want to keep them all. Those that aren’t the very best will certainly work well as recips.

With the technology available at Trans Ova I can pretty much eliminate bull calves completely. Right now I would prefer to have only females born, but doing that throughout the entire herd can get expensive, unless you use sexed semen on the entire herd, which limits my sire selection.

Another option is selling registered bred heifers that are confirmed pregnant via sexed semen, and also ultrasound to prove that they have a female calf. Kind of a two for one special. I’ve discussed this with buyers and they are very interested in this plan.

The seed stock biz is crowded, and the choices endless, not so much with high quality females, especially bred AI.
Your use of the term "seed stock" in this thread has confused me. I have understood the term to refer to those that produce and market registered females and bulls. You limit its use to bull sellers? Perhaps it is simply a regional difference.
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Re: SAV America has a long way to go

Post by CreekAngus » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:23 pm

Brookhill: I applaud you for finally giving the scoop on where you're heading. Sounds like you're heading the same direction I am, except we don't sex semen and will probably never do embryos. My plan is to breed really good cows and if I run into selling a decent bull, so be it. But as a seed stock buyer, I want to warn you of one of your takes. I could be an outlier, but I don't think I am. Most folks looking to buy good replacements are not looking for matings within the pedigree. Most seed stock buyers are really only looking for one line in a pedigree. It might tickle your fancy to have America in the pedigree, but your buyer may only be interested in Hoover Dam. Dam is the seller and that may not even be true. I disliked In Focus (for my own personal, invalid reasons), my entire herd is now made up of In Focus in the geneology. I bought my bred heifers based on phenotype and the farm behind them, had nothing to do with the pedigree. If I go out to get new genetics into my herd in the future, it's going out to get something I haven't bred into mine. For me it could be looking for a Payweight or Cowboy Up daughter, because I've opted not to use them as sires and the phenotype will still be paramount. Be careful thinking rare matings will matter, because for a lot of folks, it really isn't a driver to purchase cattle. But for you as a breeder, it sure is a kick in the pants.
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Re: SAV America has a long way to go

Post by Brookhill Angus » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:03 pm

CreekAngus wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:23 pm
Brookhill: I applaud you for finally giving the scoop on where you're heading. Sounds like you're heading the same direction I am, except we don't sex semen and will probably never do embryos. My plan is to breed really good cows and if I run into selling a decent bull, so be it. But as a seed stock buyer, I want to warn you of one of your takes. I could be an outlier, but I don't think I am. Most folks looking to buy good replacements are not looking for matings within the pedigree. Most seed stock buyers are really only looking for one line in a pedigree. It might tickle your fancy to have America in the pedigree, but your buyer may only be interested in Hoover Dam. Dam is the seller and that may not even be true. I disliked In Focus (for my own personal, invalid reasons), my entire herd is now made up of In Focus in the geneology. I bought my bred heifers based on phenotype and the farm behind them, had nothing to do with the pedigree. If I go out to get new genetics into my herd in the future, it's going out to get something I haven't bred into mine. For me it could be looking for a Payweight or Cowboy Up daughter, because I've opted not to use them as sires and the phenotype will still be paramount. Be careful thinking rare matings will matter, because for a lot of folks, it really isn't a driver to purchase cattle. But for you as a breeder, it sure is a kick in the pants.
Fair enough,

I will breed what I like, and see where the chips fall, it's not like the matings that I'm doing are going to suddenly produce mediocre results, because thus far that has not been the case.

I mentioned that if I can get a really top Supercharger daughter that I'm going to mate her to Net Worth, that's not easy to pull off, and people who own Net Worth daughters, AND like what they see with Supercharger, are definitely interested in seeing what happens with this. Those are my potential clients.

The overall cattle business is a very crowded trade, so to say. Niche is where we are, and where we will remain.

I wish you the best in your business, you no doubt will produce a high-quality product.
"When someone tells you it can't be done, it's more a reflection of their limitations, not yours"

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Re: SAV America has a long way to go

Post by Brookhill Angus » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:21 pm

CreekAngus wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:23 pm
Brookhill: I applaud you for finally giving the scoop on where you're heading. Sounds like you're heading the same direction I am, except we don't sex semen and will probably never do embryos. My plan is to breed really good cows and if I run into selling a decent bull, so be it. But as a seed stock buyer, I want to warn you of one of your takes. I could be an outlier, but I don't think I am. Most folks looking to buy good replacements are not looking for matings within the pedigree. Most seed stock buyers are really only looking for one line in a pedigree. It might tickle your fancy to have America in the pedigree, but your buyer may only be interested in Hoover Dam. Dam is the seller and that may not even be true. I disliked In Focus (for my own personal, invalid reasons), my entire herd is now made up of In Focus in the geneology. I bought my bred heifers based on phenotype and the farm behind them, had nothing to do with the pedigree. If I go out to get new genetics into my herd in the future, it's going out to get something I haven't bred into mine. For me it could be looking for a Payweight or Cowboy Up daughter, because I've opted not to use them as sires and the phenotype will still be paramount. Be careful thinking rare matings will matter, because for a lot of folks, it really isn't a driver to purchase cattle. But for you as a breeder, it sure is a kick in the pants.
Creek have you noticed that when America is mentioned on a thread that it suddenly gets a tremendous amount of views? Just this one thread alone has almost 80-90 posts and nearly 2400 views.

There are sires that garner a lot of interest and that is never a bad thing when it comes time to sell the progeny.

You know as well as I do, that people post what are probably very good bulls on the Facebook forums that are pretty much forgotten a week later. SAV America 8018 is not one of them.
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Re: SAV America has a long way to go

Post by CreekAngus » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:12 pm

Brookhill Angus wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:21 pm
CreekAngus wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:23 pm
Brookhill: I applaud you for finally giving the scoop on where you're heading. Sounds like you're heading the same direction I am, except we don't sex semen and will probably never do embryos. My plan is to breed really good cows and if I run into selling a decent bull, so be it. But as a seed stock buyer, I want to warn you of one of your takes. I could be an outlier, but I don't think I am. Most folks looking to buy good replacements are not looking for matings within the pedigree. Most seed stock buyers are really only looking for one line in a pedigree. It might tickle your fancy to have America in the pedigree, but your buyer may only be interested in Hoover Dam. Dam is the seller and that may not even be true. I disliked In Focus (for my own personal, invalid reasons), my entire herd is now made up of In Focus in the geneology. I bought my bred heifers based on phenotype and the farm behind them, had nothing to do with the pedigree. If I go out to get new genetics into my herd in the future, it's going out to get something I haven't bred into mine. For me it could be looking for a Payweight or Cowboy Up daughter, because I've opted not to use them as sires and the phenotype will still be paramount. Be careful thinking rare matings will matter, because for a lot of folks, it really isn't a driver to purchase cattle. But for you as a breeder, it sure is a kick in the pants.
Creek have you noticed that when America is mentioned on a thread that it suddenly gets a tremendous amount of views? Just this one thread alone has almost 80-90 posts and nearly 2400 views.

There are sires that garner a lot of interest and that is never a bad thing when it comes time to sell the progeny.

You know as well as I do, that people post what are probably very good bulls on the Facebook forums that are pretty much forgotten a week later. SAV America 8018 is not one of them.
In this case I don’t think it’s America, it’s you. James you garner a lot of interest, whether good or negative. A lot of it is driven by you. We do have a thread on Cowboy Up going right now and it’s been well posted on and if you posted your two cents, 8 posters are going to go on there to give you their five cents. I agree though America does have a lot of positive and negative comments on Facebook threads, honestly I got no thought on the bull, after you all prove him out, I will know more. And as I’ve stated I like his pedigree, but I like it with 707 better.
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Re: SAV America has a long way to go

Post by CreekAngus » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:16 pm

Brookhill Angus wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:03 pm
CreekAngus wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:23 pm
Brookhill: I applaud you for finally giving the scoop on where you're heading. Sounds like you're heading the same direction I am, except we don't sex semen and will probably never do embryos. My plan is to breed really good cows and if I run into selling a decent bull, so be it. But as a seed stock buyer, I want to warn you of one of your takes. I could be an outlier, but I don't think I am. Most folks looking to buy good replacements are not looking for matings within the pedigree. Most seed stock buyers are really only looking for one line in a pedigree. It might tickle your fancy to have America in the pedigree, but your buyer may only be interested in Hoover Dam. Dam is the seller and that may not even be true. I disliked In Focus (for my own personal, invalid reasons), my entire herd is now made up of In Focus in the geneology. I bought my bred heifers based on phenotype and the farm behind them, had nothing to do with the pedigree. If I go out to get new genetics into my herd in the future, it's going out to get something I haven't bred into mine. For me it could be looking for a Payweight or Cowboy Up daughter, because I've opted not to use them as sires and the phenotype will still be paramount. Be careful thinking rare matings will matter, because for a lot of folks, it really isn't a driver to purchase cattle. But for you as a breeder, it sure is a kick in the pants.
Fair enough,

I will breed what I like, and see where the chips fall, it's not like the matings that I'm doing are going to suddenly produce mediocre results, because thus far that has not been the case.

I mentioned that if I can get a really top Supercharger daughter that I'm going to mate her to Net Worth, that's not easy to pull off, and people who own Net Worth daughters, AND like what they see with Supercharger, are definitely interested in seeing what happens with this. Those are my potential clients.

The overall cattle business is a very crowded trade, so to say. Niche is where we are, and where we will remain.

I wish you the best in your business, you no doubt will produce a high-quality product.
Thank you James, but I will probably have a monumental disaster that only I can appreciate. Most likely I’m going to end up with 1000 straws of semen in my tank belonging to 998 sires and have 5 cows to use those on.
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Re: SAV America has a long way to go

Post by Redgully » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:24 am

CreekAngus wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:16 pm


Most likely I’m going to end up with 1000 straws of semen in my tank belonging to 998 sires and have 5 cows to use those on.
I think I'm about there now.

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