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Need advice on a terminal bull please

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:57 pm
by Willicd
I live in the texas panhandle and farm/ranch ASIDE from my full time shift work job. The only reason i mention this is because it helped dictate the type cattle i run. I am rarely around when they are calving and some pastures are very rugged and grass is sparse. For this reason I use corriente or longhorn cows and breed to angus or charolais bulls. I am retaining heifers now to start a more viable commercial "beef" herd since the market is down and you cant give away something with LH influence now. Anyway, all of these heifers are black or creme colored, polled, and have DECENT muscle. I need to know what the best breed of bull would be to maximize the black hide and muscle on the terminal calves? I am thinking limousin if i can find one. Would it be detrimental to breed back to another angus?

Re: Need advice on a terminal bull please

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:00 pm
by ANAZAZI
Limousine would be your best option, a red one.

Re: Need advice on a terminal bull please

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:05 pm
by Willicd
Thanks for the reply. Why red? Black is what sells in this region for whatever reason.

Re: Need advice on a terminal bull please

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:42 pm
by Muddy
Breed them back to Charolais or breed them to a blk limo or black sim bull. That said I think you can breed them to a red (fullblooded) limo bull to get more muscle and still have a great marketable calf. They'll be either black or red calf anyways.

Re: Need advice on a terminal bull please

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:55 pm
by cow pollinater
I haven't seen what black lim does over longhorn but the red does a pretty good job of covering it up. With angus it tends to pop back up for a few generations in the form of linebacks.

Re: Need advice on a terminal bull please

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:01 pm
by True Grit Farms
Big Cheese is the longhorn type cattle expert here. He always gets a premium for them when there bred to one of his Char bulls.

Re: Need advice on a terminal bull please

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:13 pm
by Willicd
I feel that some of you didnt read the post. I already breed to angus and charolais bulls and i am happy with the offspring for commercial cows in my environment. What i need to know is what type of bull for these crossbred cows to maximize beef traits so i dont have to sell calves at 300#.

Re: Need advice on a terminal bull please

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:20 pm
by Boot Jack Bulls
I like the idea of a red Limi for terminal calves. I find that the red ones seem to have more breed character (beyond coat color) and for the most part pass on nice heavy muscling. Are you looking for a live bull, or AI suggestions? Does your market prefer blacks? There are also plenty of good homo black Limi bulls out there that should do the trick. Wulf Cattle sells about 300 Limi bulls every spring and has plenty of AI bulls that would fit the bill to. There are also several breeders down your way who would have what you are looking for too. :2cents:

Re: Need advice on a terminal bull please

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:22 pm
by Muddy
300lbs? Thinks you better find a better bull that can boost WW up. Nothing's wrong with breeding back to Charolais for 3/4 Char calves. Most black limousins didn't impress me much, see how they're less muscled than fullblooded limos. But since your cows are already black, you can breed them to fullblooded limousin bull and get mostly black calves.

Re: Need advice on a terminal bull please

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:32 pm
by Boot Jack Bulls
My only major concern with using a Fullblood Limi bull is that most are fine-boned for the mass they carry. I would worry that since the cows are percentage longhorn (also finer boned), you would end up with the same in the calves. They are also harder to come by, especially if you aren't looking to AI. There are plenty of black Limis out there that have the performance you are looking for, I just prefer the reds. Look at the Coleman, Wulf, Hunt, Spring Creeks, ROM"N programs (Just a couple off the top of my head).

Re: Need advice on a terminal bull please

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:37 pm
by WalnutCrest
I'll second the suggestion of Hunt. I've dealt with them before -- stand up people. I have no experience with the others.

Re: Need advice on a terminal bull please

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:05 pm
by JMJ Farms
Muddy wrote:300lbs? Thinks you better find a better bull that can boost WW up. Nothing's wrong with breeding back to Charolais for 3/4 Char calves. Most black limousins didn't impress me much, see how they're less muscled than fullblooded limos. But since your cows are already black, you can breed them to fullblooded limousin bull and get mostly black calves.


:nod:

Re: Need advice on a terminal bull please

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:01 pm
by Big Cheese
I'm doing the same thing you are doing Willicd I'm breeding Charolais bulls to Longhorn or Corriente cows and keeping the Half Breeds as cows. We are doing that to breed them.back to the Charolais and get a 3/4 Charolais calf that you won't even know it has Longhorn in it and will wean heavy. The Half Longhorn Half beef cow makes a really good momma cow.

To answer your question what I would do is breed back to Charolais because that is what I like but if you want black hide Angus would work good as well being 3/4 beef chrome may not show up but if you breed to a Angus it has a greater chance then being bred to the Charolais.

I haven't seen any Limo mixes personally but I've seen pictures they don't look that bad and we have some Black Balancer crossed with Longhorns that look really good as well so that may not be a bad choice as well. But I would stick with the two breeds you know and not go out and bring in new breeds. Just my opinion....I think you are on the right track to a great herd of cows...especially if you stick with the Charolais lol they work better with Longhorns with my experience

Re: Need advice on a terminal bull please

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:55 pm
by Willicd
I dont sell 6mo old calves that weigh 300# i sell 4mo calves that weigh 300#! I have 2 good registerd charolais bulls and an angus composite i use on heifers. I sell light not because they are inferior animals, but because i dont care to be docked for an "inferior" mindset toward them. I am wanting a bull i can put on the retained heifers and wean at 6-8 mo and 500-700#. I was looking for black hide because thats what brings a premium in this area.

Re: Need advice on a terminal bull please

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:23 pm
by Muddy
One problem: your creme colored cows may throws grey calves instead of black. Still I thinks char and red limousin will beef them very good and they make up in pounds at the sale. But if you're stuck on black hide, just go with black Simmental. They're good animals from what I seen.