Dang Hector's grown!

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.

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Re: Dang Hector's grown!

Postby Muddy » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:40 pm

Bet a black Angus bull (or a red Angus bull) will boost up hybrid vigor in the calves in Nesikep's herd.
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Re: Dang Hector's grown!

Postby Nesikep » Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:41 pm

3waycross wrote:Getting kinda inbred aren't you? The bull turned out real nice but you might want to consider
some outside blood. If it was me , and knowing what your herd composition is I would consider a real good red Balancer.

He will only be breeding half sisters at most so that's not too close. All my biggest and nicest calves are from close ratings.. what can I say... it really is working, I don't plan to go crazy with it, but I think Hector can bring a lot to the table both for maternal traits and terminal too.

I don't think I'll ever use Angus , and there are no balancers around these parts. I will get a Gelbvieh bull calf this winter to use on the heifers
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Re: Dang Hector's grown!

Postby True Grit Farms » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:03 am

3waycross wrote:Getting kinda inbred aren't you? The bull turned out real nice but you might want to consider
some outside blood. If it was me , and knowing what your herd composition is I would consider a real good red Balancer.


His cows are mostly all red, tame and culled on family lines instead of structure and soundness is all I know.
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Re: Dang Hector's grown!

Postby elkwc » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:23 am

Nesikep wrote:
3waycross wrote:Getting kinda inbred aren't you? The bull turned out real nice but you might want to consider
some outside blood. If it was me , and knowing what your herd composition is I would consider a real good red Balancer.

He will only be breeding half sisters at most so that's not too close. All my biggest and nicest calves are from close ratings.. what can I say... it really is working, I don't plan to go crazy with it, but I think Hector can bring a lot to the table both for maternal traits and terminal too.

I don't think I'll ever use Angus , and there are no balancers around these parts. I will get a Gelbvieh bull calf this winter to use on the heifers


With the docility of your herd personally I would be very selective about docility if I decided to go the Balancer or Gelveigh route. We gave up a lot with the one we used and also some frame and carcass.
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Re: Dang Hector's grown!

Postby 3waycross » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:03 am

True Grit Farms wrote:
3waycross wrote:Getting kinda inbred aren't you? The bull turned out real nice but you might want to consider
some outside blood. If it was me , and knowing what your herd composition is I would consider a real good red Balancer.


His cows are mostly all red, tame and culled on family lines instead of structure and soundness is all I know.


He's been telling us about them for years....I think it's a fair statement. He already has a Gelbvieh foundation, some Hereford and I believe some shorthorn. That is almost identical to my friends herd that I have been helping him develop for years. FWIW he also has his disposition issues and what looks to be the beginning of some of the same issues my buddy had when he took over his Dad's cowherd. His father hadn't brought in any outside blood for 15 years.
He ended up with a herd that was just starting to fall apart at the seams. Cows dying for no apparent reason, weaning weights that were declining rapidly. One last thing I would point out; the bull in spite of his size had "some" structural issues (his back legs) when he was young and 2000 lbs. of meat didn't change them.
What we did with that herd was; a Gelbvieh bull, A Red Angus bull, and two Red Balancer bulls in that order. Last year we went back on them with my Tim bull and right now his steers avg in the high 6's and his heifers are gorgeous. In the process we have knocked the horns off them, knocked all the roan out of them, got the chrome down to the occasional black or red baldie and raised the weaning weights close to 100lbs.

One last thought....The last time I looked it was a REALLY GOOD IDEA to cull for structure and soundness.(Disposition too)
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Re: Dang Hector's grown!

Postby Muddy » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:18 am

All I know that his herd is a mixture of Shorthorn, Gelbvieh, Hereford, Salers and recently Limousin. Basically red linebred crossbreds. I do like one of his home raised bulls but it seems he has add chrome on his calves really good.
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Re: Dang Hector's grown!

Postby Nesikep » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:29 am

True Grit Farms wrote:
3waycross wrote:Getting kinda inbred aren't you? The bull turned out real nice but you might want to consider
some outside blood. If it was me , and knowing what your herd composition is I would consider a real good red Balancer.


His cows are mostly all red, tame and culled on family lines instead of structure and soundness is all I know.

Yes, family lines are important here because I know which ones do better, and also which ones have perpetual issues

3way.. I'll continue my reply when I have a real keyboard
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Re: Dang Hector's grown!

Postby Nesikep » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:46 am

True Grit Farms wrote:His cows are mostly all red, tame and culled on family lines instead of structure and soundness is all I know.

Seeing that I can't find a SINGLE picture of your cows, pardon me not taking your critiques too seriously. c'mon, we have the technology nowadays.

On the other hand, I have seen lots of pics from 3waycross, and definitely like them all.

I'd love to be able to buy a perfect bull, but even if I did, some people won't like him, we all have different goals and environments. I've been working on eliminating so many more important issues than milder structural problems that don't affect performance, though I do want to get to that point eventually, and it is on the horizon. I'd love to have all perfect toplines, perfect stance, but if the end goal is beef, that is secondary...

3waycross wrote:Getting kinda inbred aren't you? The bull turned out real nice but you might want to consider
some outside blood. If it was me , and knowing what your herd composition is I would consider a real good red Balancer.

As of right now, I have no linebred/inbred cows whatsoever, the calves I posted would be the start, and from what I'm seeing, and the popular choice of people here, it's all the linebred calves that look the best... So how do I win here? Keep calves you say don't belong in my herd whatsoever, or keep the linebred ones? The linebred ones have the "look" I'm looking for, and they're outgrowing the ones that ought to be full of hybrid vigor. I don't think I'll ever completely close my herd to outside bulls, it's just not reasonable with the numbers I'm limited to, however, I'm thinking if I keep 2 bulls from every purchased bull, and am mindful of what breeds what, I should be able to get better uniformity without going overboard linebreeding, staying mostly to half siblings and cousins.. It wasn't in my original plan to have a mother-son mating, but since that cow was just not working with the unrelated bull, I gave it a try and well, it got far better results.
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Re: Dang Hector's grown!

Postby elkwc » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:57 am

Nesikep wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:His cows are mostly all red, tame and culled on family lines instead of structure and soundness is all I know.

Seeing that I can't find a SINGLE picture of your cows, pardon me not taking your critiques too seriously. c'mon, we have the technology nowadays.

On the other hand, I have seen lots of pics from 3waycross, and definitely like them all.

I'd love to be able to buy a perfect bull, but even if I did, some people won't like him, we all have different goals and environments. I've been working on eliminating so many more important issues than milder structural problems that don't affect performance, though I do want to get to that point eventually, and it is on the horizon. I'd love to have all perfect toplines, perfect stance, but if the end goal is beef, that is secondary...

3waycross wrote:Getting kinda inbred aren't you? The bull turned out real nice but you might want to consider
some outside blood. If it was me , and knowing what your herd composition is I would consider a real good red Balancer.

As of right now, I have no linebred/inbred cows whatsoever, the calves I posted would be the start, and from what I'm seeing, and the popular choice of people here, it's all the linebred calves that look the best... So how do I win here? Keep calves you say don't belong in my herd whatsoever, or keep the linebred ones? The linebred ones have the "look" I'm looking for, and they're outgrowing the ones that ought to be full of hybrid vigor. I don't think I'll ever completely close my herd to outside bulls, it's just not reasonable with the numbers I'm limited to, however, I'm thinking if I keep 2 bulls from every purchased bull, and am mindful of what breeds what, I should be able to get better uniformity without going overboard linebreeding, staying mostly to half siblings and cousins.. It wasn't in my original plan to have a mother-son mating, but since that cow was just not working with the unrelated bull, I gave it a try and well, it got far better results.

I admire your program. You have a breeding goal and it is obvious you are working towards it. I admire good cattle even when they aren't what works the best for me in my environment. I know of very productive cattle way more inbred/linebred than yours. Please keep the pics coming. Any pics of Hectors since he has came home?
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Re: Dang Hector's grown!

Postby Nesikep » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:13 am

Not great pictures
Image

Image

Here's a daughter of his from a Hereford cow
Image

Image
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Re: Dang Hector's grown!

Postby True Grit Farms » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:54 am

I've posted a few pictures on different threads of my cattle on here, but never made a point to show off. I'm trying really hard to be nice, but LINE breeding CROSS bred mongrel cows isn't what LINE breeding is all about. You definitely are thinking outside the box and your results show....some good some bad. And that wouldn't be such a bad thing for a registered breeder that's willing to cull mistakes. A good pure bred line bred animal bred to another pure bred line bred animal will produce another animal very similar to it. Your good crossbred animal line bred with another good cossbred animal will produce? That's just a stupid way for a commercial cattlemen to breed cattle. And after spending 20+ years doing what you've been doing, the fact is you need to stick with breeding for calm easy handling cattle, you seem to be good at that.
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Re: Dang Hector's grown!

Postby Nesikep » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:56 pm

25 years of crossbreeding hasn't REALLY gotten me anywhere significant, which is why I'm trying something a little different. At this point my main goal is to have mid-size cows with no skinny looking racks.. and I have some full sisters that are so completely different from each other you'd never guess.. that's what I'm trying to avoid at this point.
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Re: Dang Hector's grown!

Postby Muddy » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:10 pm

Well Red Angus cows fits your bill then.
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Re: Dang Hector's grown!

Postby Nesikep » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:54 pm

Here are some videos of today, First one you can see Hector (a little bit) walking.. He was a little sore from the long ride and a heck of a rough road, but he's loosening up again


And here he is a bit of a walkaround of him


And a pic
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Re: Dang Hector's grown!

Postby ALACOWMAN » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:38 pm

His look at 5 months,,concerns me more then anything else...one of the periods in their growth that tell the tale...
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