Making the best black baldy cattle

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Clodhopper
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Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby Clodhopper » Sat May 06, 2017 11:50 am

With a nod to the SimAngus and Brahman threads, I have been doing a lot of thinking and research on the way I want to take my cattle operation.

First, I need to produce what sells in my area. Right now, that is Red Angus or Black Baldy calves.

Second, I need to produce a quality product- uniform, growthy calves that grade well.

Third, I need to produce that product as efficiently as possible- sound cows that take care of themselves and baby with low inputs (grass or hay, quality mineral).

Obviously, these are not groundbreaking revelations, but it seems many people stumble around, hoping to find something that will stick. I am as guilty as the next guy when it comes to this. However, I like the idea of making the long range plan and sticking with it. I just don't want to make the wrong plan, of course. As True Grit said in another thread, when you look around you see just how small you are (or maybe your world is). For all the playground bickering, CT has helped me, along with many others, to see outside my little corner of the world.

What is you all's opinion of making a quality herd of crossbred cattle, focusing using two linebred herds to produce replacements and market animals? I've been contemplating Victor Domino Herefords and Wye Angus. I would use one or the other on my existing herd (Angus, Herf, Sim cows) then go from there, alternating back and forth. Am I too mixed up to start with, or is what I'm thinking sound viable?
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby WalnutCrest » Sat May 06, 2017 12:07 pm

Where is your operation?
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby Caustic Burno » Sat May 06, 2017 12:18 pm

Clodhopper wrote:With a nod to the SimAngus and Brahman threads, I have been doing a lot of thinking and research on the way I want to take my cattle operation.

First, I need to produce what sells in my area. Right now, that is Red Angus or Black Baldy calves.

Second, I need to produce a quality product- uniform, growthy calves that grade well.

Third, I need to produce that product as efficiently as possible- sound cows that take care of themselves and baby with low inputs (grass or hay, quality mineral).

Obviously, these are not groundbreaking revelations, but it seems many people stumble around, hoping to find something that will stick. I am as guilty as the next guy when it comes to this. However, I like the idea of making the long range plan and sticking with it. I just don't want to make the wrong plan, of course. As True Grit said in another thread, when you look around you see just how small you are (or maybe your world is). For all the playground bickering, CT has helped me, along with many others, to see outside my little corner of the world.

What is you all's opinion of making a quality herd of crossbred cattle, focusing using two linebred herds to produce replacements and market animals? I've been contemplating Victor Domino Herefords and Wye Angus. I would use one or the other on my existing herd (Angus, Herf, Sim cows) then go from there, alternating back and forth. Am I too mixed up to start with, or is what I'm thinking sound viable?


If I was a young man starting over be hard to beat super baldie.
Good group of Hereford cows and a Brangus bull from some one like Ricebelt would be the ticket.
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby Clodhopper » Sat May 06, 2017 12:35 pm

WalnutCrest wrote:Where is your operation?

Southern Illinois
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby True Grit Farms » Sat May 06, 2017 12:45 pm

Our herds incorporate the same three breeds. I can't see where you can ever get to red Angus without a dispersal sale. If you want to keep what you have and make black baldies using a blazed face black Simmental bull is one way. There's some good homo black, blazed face Simmental Bulls in the SS line up. I don't know how you can call a blazed faced bull homo black but people do? And using a Hereford is another good way to produce baldies, but expect some red calves when using a Hereford bull. My results when using a Hereford bull was a 100% on calves having a blazed face, but about 30% of the calves were red baldies.
What's the difference between debating and bickering Clodhopper?
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby Clodhopper » Sat May 06, 2017 1:01 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:Our herds incorporate the same three breeds. I can't see where you can ever get to red Angus without a dispersal sale. If you want to keep what you have and make black baldies using a blazed face black Simmental bull is one way. There's some good homo black, blazed face Simmental Bulls in the SS line up. I don't know how you can call a blazed faced bull homo black but people do? And using a Hereford is another good way to produce baldies, but expect some red calves when using a Hereford bull. My results when using a Hereford bull was a 100% on calves having a blazed face, but about 30% of the calves were red baldies.
What's the difference between debating and bickering Clodhopper?

Bickering is ten pages of the same old breed insults being thrown back and forth, when the same old breed insults have been made on countless other posts/topics.

What I'm asking is, should the exclusive use of bulls from two quality,proven linebred herds be worth the probable added cost to find and purchase, as opposed to using outcross genetics? I read that throwing a quality linebred on an unrelated herd results in more uniform, higher quality calves in general. Would repeating that process between two herds of different breeds result in crossbreds that would, in a couple generations, be extremely consistent, but have the added hybrid vigor? It may be too much trouble for a commercial producer, but I want that consistency. Would it be worth the time and trouble just to produce crossbred calves?
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby Bright Raven » Sat May 06, 2017 1:11 pm

I disagree with your characterization of the "playground bickering". If it bothers you, IMO, that's a weakness you should work on.

Personally, I find the "bickering" the most entertaining property of the forum. There is rarely anything on this forum you cannot get yourself with a Google search. Cattle Today is only interesting to me because of the human interaction.

To each his own. I think we should start a thread and bicker about "bickering".
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby WalnutCrest » Sat May 06, 2017 1:37 pm

I like (a lot) your idea of line bed cows going to unrelated linebred bulls.

My thoughts ...

LB cow x LB bull = retained heifer F1
...keep making these F1s...

F1 heifer x CE bull of third breed = market calves

F1 cows x great herd sire of third breed = commercial replacement heifers and cows to get bred back to builds related to your original line bred cows ... the beginning of a three way cross ...
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby Clodhopper » Sat May 06, 2017 1:52 pm

Bright Raven wrote:I disagree with your characterization of the "playground bickering". If it bothers you, IMO, that's a weakness you should work on.

Personally, I find the "bickering" the most entertaining property of the forum. There is rarely anything on this forum you cannot get yourself with a Google search. Cattle Today is only interesting to me because of the human interaction.

To each his own. I think we should start a thread and bicker about "bickering".
:x

It is entertaining, to a point. It's just that it takes so much away from the purpose of the post, many times, and I'll leave it at that. As a friend of mine says, you don't wrassle with a hog, you'll just get muddy and the hog loves it! :lol:

BR, you're a man who breeds some quality cattle. What's your thoughts on using dual linebred breeds in tandem?
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby Bright Raven » Sat May 06, 2017 1:55 pm

Clodhopper wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:I disagree with your characterization of the "playground bickering". If it bothers you, IMO, that's a weakness you should work on.

Personally, I find the "bickering" the most entertaining property of the forum. There is rarely anything on this forum you cannot get yourself with a Google search. Cattle Today is only interesting to me because of the human interaction.

To each his own. I think we should start a thread and bicker about "bickering".
:x

It is entertaining, to a point. It's just that it takes so much away from the purpose of the post, many times, and I'll leave it at that. As a friend of mine says, you don't wrassle with a hog, you'll just get muddy and the hog loves it! :lol:

BR, you're a man who breeds some quality cattle. What's your thoughts on using dual linebred breeds in tandem?


Candidly: as much as I hate to admit it, I am only the instrument of the breeding counsel I get from Kris, Fire Sweep Simmentals, it is her passion. She tells me what to do and I carry it out. Lol
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby Clodhopper » Sat May 06, 2017 1:57 pm

WalnutCrest wrote:I like (a lot) your idea of line bed cows going to unrelated linebred bulls.

My thoughts ...

LB cow x LB bull = retained heifer F1
...keep making these F1s...

F1 heifer x CE bull of third breed = market calves

F1 cows x great herd sire of third breed = commercial replacement heifers and cows to get bred back to builds related to your original line bred cows ... the beginning of a three way cross ...

I think that would be ideal. However, I don't have the funds to sell out and buy the linebred herd of cows. Although my herd is of different breeds, they are similar in frame size, and I've culled for similar characteristics. It's probably the best I could do to start with the linebred bulls and go from there, in order to maintain numbers. I know, given the different breeds, I'll never get the consistency as if I were to do what you suggest, but it would be as close as I could get this way.
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby Clodhopper » Sat May 06, 2017 2:00 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Clodhopper wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:I disagree with your characterization of the "playground bickering". If it bothers you, IMO, that's a weakness you should work on.

Personally, I find the "bickering" the most entertaining property of the forum. There is rarely anything on this forum you cannot get yourself with a Google search. Cattle Today is only interesting to me because of the human interaction.

To each his own. I think we should start a thread and bicker about "bickering".
:x

It is entertaining, to a point. It's just that it takes so much away from the purpose of the post, many times, and I'll leave it at that. As a friend of mine says, you don't wrassle with a hog, you'll just get muddy and the hog loves it! :lol:

BR, you're a man who breeds some quality cattle. What's your thoughts on using dual linebred breeds in tandem?


Candidly: as much as I hate to admit it, I am only the instrument of the breeding counsel I get from Kris, Fire Sweep Simmentals, it is her passion. She tells me what to do and I carry it out. Lol

I have a hard time believing that. Surely, a man of your intelligence has picked up a thing or two along the way. I'm serious about the intelligence comment, you're obviously smarter than the average bear.
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby Bright Raven » Sat May 06, 2017 2:03 pm

Clodhopper wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
Clodhopper wrote:It is entertaining, to a point. It's just that it takes so much away from the purpose of the post, many times, and I'll leave it at that. As a friend of mine says, you don't wrassle with a hog, you'll just get muddy and the hog loves it! :lol:

BR, you're a man who breeds some quality cattle. What's your thoughts on using dual linebred breeds in tandem?


Candidly: as much as I hate to admit it, I am only the instrument of the breeding counsel I get from Kris, Fire Sweep Simmentals, it is her passion. She tells me what to do and I carry it out. Lol

I have a hard time believing that. Surely, a man of your intelligence has picked up a thing or two along the way. I'm serious about the intelligence comment, you're obviously smarter than the average bear.


Thank you. I understand genetics. I don't have her years of experience following cow families and her knowledge of Simmental Sires. Plus she understands how the traits interact.
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby Clodhopper » Sat May 06, 2017 2:11 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Clodhopper wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
Candidly: as much as I hate to admit it, I am only the instrument of the breeding counsel I get from Kris, Fire Sweep Simmentals, it is her passion. She tells me what to do and I carry it out. Lol

I have a hard time believing that. Surely, a man of your intelligence has picked up a thing or two along the way. I'm serious about the intelligence comment, you're obviously smarter than the average bear.


Thank you. I understand genetics. I don't have her years of experience following cow families and her knowledge of Simmental Sires. Plus she understands how the traits interact.

That's a good way of putting what I'm asking, how the traits would interact, trying to narrow down the variability of the herd with linebreeding, but using the complimentary different breeds. It may be counterproductive, I'm not sure.
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby TennesseeTuxedo » Sat May 06, 2017 2:12 pm

Clodhopper wrote:With a nod to the SimAngus and Brahman threads, I have been doing a lot of thinking and research on the way I want to take my cattle operation.

First, I need to produce what sells in my area. Right now, that is Red Angus or Black Baldy calves.

Second, I need to produce a quality product- uniform, growthy calves that grade well.

Third, I need to produce that product as efficiently as possible- sound cows that take care of themselves and baby with low inputs (grass or hay, quality mineral).

Obviously, these are not groundbreaking revelations, but it seems many people stumble around, hoping to find something that will stick. I am as guilty as the next guy when it comes to this. However, I like the idea of making the long range plan and sticking with it. I just don't want to make the wrong plan, of course. As True Grit said in another thread, when you look around you see just how small you are (or maybe your world is). For all the playground bickering, CT has helped me, along with many others, to see outside my little corner of the world.

What is you all's opinion of making a quality herd of crossbred cattle, focusing using two linebred herds to produce replacements and market animals? I've been contemplating Victor Domino Herefords and Wye Angus. I would use one or the other on my existing herd (Angus, Herf, Sim cows) then go from there, alternating back and forth. Am I too mixed up to start with, or is what I'm thinking sound viable?


Best calves we produce are the result of a Danny Miller bred Victor Domino cow and our Bismarck bull.

Love em
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