Making the best black baldy cattle

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.

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Bright Raven
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby Bright Raven » Sat May 20, 2017 3:21 pm

Caustic Burno wrote:
Wyo1 wrote:If you can't make money retaining your heifers it must be your location.
Heifer last fall worth $570
Winter $40x7=280 (more than I pay)
Sumer $20x6=120 (more than I pay)
Breeding $30
Death loss interest $50
Vet/vaccine $10
Total $1060
So if you sold them next fall just as open heifers 975x1.25 1218
Breed heifers $1500
If you need a new accountant and don't depreciate your breeding livestock you would only be paying on the first 570 plus profit. And you would have to pay on the 570 in the first place.

What happened to taxes,fuel, maintenance etc.
What happened to the cows expense as well? The cow produced no income for the year only inputs.
You can't deprecate retained stock as the stock has no value until sold.
If your CPA is depreciating retained stock they are going to get you one of those special audits.
You can right off the inputs on the retained calf that's it.
To have depreciation value with the IRS it has to be bought
If I use your numbers for the cow and calf to retain you have 2100 in them


I prepare my taxes and that is my understanding. But it would not be my first tax mistake if I am doing it wrong.
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby Post Oak » Sat May 20, 2017 4:11 pm

Rafter S wrote:When I keep a heifer, maybe I didn't get any cash money from her dam that year, but I have increased my cattle numbers by one. Isn't that worth something?

+1
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Caustic Burno
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby Caustic Burno » Sat May 20, 2017 4:23 pm

Post Oak wrote:
Rafter S wrote:When I keep a heifer, maybe I didn't get any cash money from her dam that year, but I have increased my cattle numbers by one. Isn't that worth something?

+1


Only a liability until you sell a calf or the heifer. She has no value till sold.
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby Wyo1 » Sat May 20, 2017 5:01 pm

I think we are a long way from his question. And are :bang: :bang:
I Think it would work great but would try to do it slower. I would probably buy the line breed Herf or sim whichever you think would work best for your area. Once you have your baldy cow herd go back with a line breed angus 2 or three generations until you think you need some more hybrid vigor. This way your calf crop would be more consistent. Feeders need consistency and will pay for it.
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby True Grit Farms » Sat May 20, 2017 5:47 pm

Caustic Burno wrote:
Post Oak wrote:
Rafter S wrote:When I keep a heifer, maybe I didn't get any cash money from her dam that year, but I have increased my cattle numbers by one. Isn't that worth something?

+1


Only a liability until you sell a calf or the heifer. She has no value till sold.


Come on CB, that makes no sense at all to me. If a cow didn't have any value till she was sold you couldn't use them as collateral for a loan. I feel the value of my cattle rises and falls with the market. If we don't get a inch or two of rain by Tuesday, another trailer load will be heading to the sale this week. Cows are like money in the bank to me.
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby elkwc » Sat May 20, 2017 5:53 pm

Caustic Burno wrote:
Post Oak wrote:
Rafter S wrote:When I keep a heifer, maybe I didn't get any cash money from her dam that year, but I have increased my cattle numbers by one. Isn't that worth something?

+1


Only a liability until you sell a calf or the heifer. She has no value till sold.


Every calf that is born is a liability by your standards. So do you leave your cows open so you can avoid the liability? Or do you sell them every year and buy back pairs so you can avoid the liability? I highly doubt either. So all we do when we retain a heifer is extend the liability a little longer if you want to call it that. I personally don't feel it is a liability but evidently you do.
Last edited by elkwc on Sat May 20, 2017 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby Caustic Burno » Sat May 20, 2017 6:54 pm

Common Grit your smarter than that collateral is only the value of what something can be sold for. It has no value except till sold. The cow produced a calf that is sold that is where value is generated.
The cow has no value other than the product she provides. Everything thing else is a liability
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby True Grit Farms » Sat May 20, 2017 7:43 pm

Caustic Burno wrote:Common Grit your smarter than that collateral is only the value of what something can be sold for. It has no value except till sold. The cow produced a calf that is sold that is where value is generated.
The cow has no value other than the product she provides. Everything thing else is a liability


So if I take your cows it's alright since the cows have no value? You can't use something as collateral if it has no value. I'll go as far as calling cows a liquid asset. Your dead wrong on this one and to hard headed to admit it.
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby elkwc » Sat May 20, 2017 7:49 pm

Wyo1 wrote:I think we are a long way from his question. And are :bang: :bang:
I Think it would work great but would try to do it slower. I would probably buy the line breed Herf or sim whichever you think would work best for your area. Once you have your baldy cow herd go back with a line breed angus 2 or three generations until you think you need some more hybrid vigor. This way your calf crop would be more consistent. Feeders need consistency and will pay for it.


This is one of the main reasons many of us retain heifers. Most of the time they are related. Half sisters or more. This over time makes for a more uniform calf crop in frame size and quality. And why the feeders will pay more for them. Basically what we have been trying to get across. You don't get that by buying a new set of heifers or cows every year or so.

There is a breeder I go by regularly. He raised good Polled Herefords for years. Starting at least 15 years ago and maybe as many as 20 he started rotating Angus bulls and Herefords. It has worked well for him and his calves always sell good. Over the entire time I've seen maybe 4-5 red baldies. The rest black baldies and motleys. He rotates every time he changes bulls. He will use one for 2-3 years and then bring in the other breed for the next 2-3 years. His cattle have a reputation and any heifers he doesn't retain have a ready market.
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby elkwc » Sat May 20, 2017 7:49 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
Caustic Burno wrote:Common Grit your smarter than that collateral is only the value of what something can be sold for. It has no value except till sold. The cow produced a calf that is sold that is where value is generated.
The cow has no value other than the product she provides. Everything thing else is a liability


So if I take your cows it's alright since the cows have no value? You can't use something as collateral if it has no value. I'll go as far as calling cows a liquid asset. Your dead wrong on this one and to hard headed to admit it.


+1
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby Caustic Burno » Sat May 20, 2017 8:06 pm

Nothing has value till you convert it to cash. Everything is a liability until converted to cash.
You don't own your place you rent it if you don't believe that don't pay the taxes and see how long the county takes to convert it to cash.
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby elkwc » Sat May 20, 2017 8:11 pm

Caustic Burno wrote:Nothing has value till you convert it to cash. Everything is a liability until converted to cash.
You don't own your place you rent it if you don't believe that don't pay the taxes and see how long the county takes to convert it to cash.


But you said a cow that is purchased has value but one that was raised and retained don't. I don't agree with that. Either they do or the don't. And I say they have value. If there was no value involved there would be no need to get appraisals.
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby True Grit Farms » Sat May 20, 2017 8:38 pm

elkwc wrote:
Caustic Burno wrote:Nothing has value till you convert it to cash. Everything is a liability until converted to cash.
You don't own your place you rent it if you don't believe that don't pay the taxes and see how long the county takes to convert it to cash.


But you said a cow that is purchased has value but one that was raised and retained don't. I don't agree with that. Either they do or the don't. And I say they have value. If there was no value involved there would be no need to get appraisals.


Or livestock insurance.
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby Bright Raven » Sat May 20, 2017 8:40 pm

Caustic Burno wrote:Nothing has value till you convert it to cash. Everything is a liability until converted to cash.
You don't own your place you rent it if you don't believe that don't pay the taxes and see how long the county takes to convert it to cash.


You were doing well but that is not right. Even rudimentary economics dictates assets have value and that is determined by the process of estimating a fair market value.

If you have 10 feeder steers at 700 pounds each are you inclined to try to tell us they have ZERO value?

If your statement was true then barter would not exist:

exchange (goods or services) for other goods or services without using money.
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Re: Making the best black baldy cattle

Postby elkwc » Sat May 20, 2017 8:56 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Caustic Burno wrote:Nothing has value till you convert it to cash. Everything is a liability until converted to cash.
You don't own your place you rent it if you don't believe that don't pay the taxes and see how long the county takes to convert it to cash.


You were doing well but that is not right. Even rudimentary economics dictates assets have value and that is determined by the process of estimating a fair market value.

If you have 10 feeder steers at 700 pounds each are you inclined to try to tell us they have ZERO value?

If your statement was true then barter would not exist:

exchange (goods or services) for other goods or services without using money.


+1
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