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Let's Bicker

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 7:10 am
by Bright Raven
Currently, all cattle on planet earth are categorized by the science of taxonomy into the species Bos taurus. The type species is Bos taurus taurus with indicus cattle being recognized as Bos taurus indicus.

Ever since mankind moved his furniture from the family cave, he has been looking for a reliable supply of food for his family. So somewhere in the evil middle East before Mesopotamia had flowered into the center of human civilization, mankind had started domesticating animals.

Asia has several species of wild bovine. Banteng, Gaur, Kouprey, etc. Hunters probably brought calves of these wild cattle back to their village where they nurtured them. Eventually, this evolved into the process of domestication which continues today.

As a result of selection and culling, mankind has developed breeds of cattle. There are 800 breeds of cattle recognized worldwide.

There is a misconception I observe on this forum that "breeds" should be "stagnant". Go to the Black Hereford thread as evidence. Breeds are a "work in progress". If holding to a "breed" like at some point all improvement must stop was that important, there would be one and that one would look like a Auroch.

If a breed association (Not one of the local marketing associations you guys think Satan spawned) and its membership decide to improve the breed or modernize it to meet market demands, why is that sacreligious?

Re: Let's Bicker

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 7:11 am
by TennesseeTuxedo
:pop:

Re: Let's Bicker

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 7:27 am
by Turkeybird
What's next then? Homozygous black British whites and black Murray Greys,! If you want a hybrid why not make your own

Re: Let's Bicker

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 7:31 am
by Bright Raven
Turkeybird wrote:What's next then? Homozygous black British whites and black Murray Greys,! If you want a hybrid why not make your own


This is concept specific. Without debating Black Herefords or Black Murray Greys, there is a misconception that once a breed reaches some undefined point, it can no longer be improved.

Re: Let's Bicker

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 7:32 am
by dun
Turkeybird wrote:What's next then? Homozygous black British whites and black Murray Greys,! If you want a hybrid why not make your own

Or black charolais, oh yeah they already have those

Re: Let's Bicker

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 7:34 am
by dun
In the spirit of things, if I had a perfect 1955 corvette and painted it JD green, how is that an improvement?

Re: Let's Bicker

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 7:41 am
by Bright Raven
dun wrote:In the spirit of things, if I had a perfect 1955 corvette and painted it JD green, how is that an improvement?


Is there a perfect breed? If the value of the 1955 Corvette was increased by 30 %, would you paint it JD Green?

Re: Let's Bicker

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 7:46 am
by Muddy
Turkeybird wrote:What's next then? Homozygous black British whites and black Murray Greys,! If you want a hybrid why not make your own

Umm Black Murray greys already existed.

Re: Let's Bicker

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 8:25 am
by WalnutCrest
Bright Raven wrote:Currently, all cattle on planet earth are categorized by the science of taxonomy into the species Bos taurus. The type species is Bos taurus taurus with indicus cattle being recognized as Bos taurus indicus.

Ever since mankind moved his furniture from the family cave, he has been looking for a reliable supply of food for his family. So somewhere in the evil middle East before Mesopotamia had flowered into the center of human civilization, mankind had started domesticating animals.

Asia has several species of wild bovine. Banteng, Gaur, Kouprey, etc. Hunters probably brought calves of these wild cattle back to their village where they nurtured them. Eventually, this evolved into the process of domestication which continues today.

As a result of selection and culling, mankind has developed breeds of cattle. There are 800 breeds of cattle recognized worldwide.

There is a misconception I observe on this forum that "breeds" should be "stagnant". Go to the Black Hereford thread as evidence. Breeds are a "work in progress". If holding to a "breed" like at some point all improvement must stop was that important, there would be one and that one would look like a Auroch.

If a breed association (Not one of the local marketing associations you guys think Satan spawned) and its membership decide to improve the breed or modernize it to meet market demands, why is that sacreligious?


I - Bos taurus sanga ... a third option

II - Improvement is a very interesting word. How would one know if they were actually improving something ... vs ... change for changes sake?

Re: Let's Bicker

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 8:29 am
by Son of Butch
dun wrote:In the spirit of things, if I had a perfect 1955 corvette and painted it JD green, how is that an improvement?

No such thing as a perfect '55 corvette.
Otherwise why would design engineers add power windows in 1956 or a 4 speed manual transmission in 1957.

So cattle, like cars, are adapted or mutate with changing environments or consumer demand, no matter how much some individuals prefer the '55 model. Similar to Darwin's discovery of adapted mutation of bird beaks size and shape according to its' environment. With gene migration man can select for heat tolerance, increased marbling or whatever works best in their environment or market place. It may not be viewed as an improvement by all, but it's what works best for that individual within their given circumstance.

Re: Let's Bicker

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 8:32 am
by BRYANT
just add a little Brahman to any of them and you will improve them :lol:

Re: Let's Bicker

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 8:37 am
by Caustic Burno
:idea:
BRYANT wrote:just add a little Brahman to any of them and you will improve them :lol:

Great idea

Re: Let's Bicker

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 8:39 am
by Son of Butch
BRYANT wrote:just add a little Brahman to any of them and you will improve them :lol:

All you Hindu converts are just looking for loopholes in immigration laws to bring grandpa gandi's soul into the usa. :)

Re: Let's Bicker

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 8:44 am
by BRYANT
Son of Butch wrote:All you Hindu converts are just looking for loopholes in immigration laws to bring grandpa gandi's soul into the usa.

:lol2: :lol2:

Re: Let's Bicker

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 9:37 am
by Bright Raven
WalnutCrest wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:Currently, all cattle on planet earth are categorized by the science of taxonomy into the species Bos taurus. The type species is Bos taurus taurus with indicus cattle being recognized as Bos taurus indicus.

Ever since mankind moved his furniture from the family cave, he has been looking for a reliable supply of food for his family. So somewhere in the evil middle East before Mesopotamia had flowered into the center of human civilization, mankind had started domesticating animals.

Asia has several species of wild bovine. Banteng, Gaur, Kouprey, etc. Hunters probably brought calves of these wild cattle back to their village where they nurtured them. Eventually, this evolved into the process of domestication which continues today.

As a result of selection and culling, mankind has developed breeds of cattle. There are 800 breeds of cattle recognized worldwide.

There is a misconception I observe on this forum that "breeds" should be "stagnant". Go to the Black Hereford thread as evidence. Breeds are a "work in progress". If holding to a "breed" like at some point all improvement must stop was that important, there would be one and that one would look like a Auroch.

If a breed association (Not one of the local marketing associations you guys think Satan spawned) and its membership decide to improve the breed or modernize it to meet market demands, why is that sacreligious?


I - Bos taurus sanga ... a third option

II - Improvement is a very interesting word. How would one know if they were actually improving something ... vs ... change for changes sake?


Darren, you might be interested to know the recent changes in taxonomy. Preface: It is controversial. The International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature has listed Sanga cattle as Bos taurus africanus.

Sanga cattle is the collective name for indigenous cattle of sub-Saharan Africa. They are sometimes identified as a subspecies with the scientific name Bos taurus africanus.

Your second point. I believe "improvement" is arbitrary and capricious. To put it in common terms: it is in the eye of the beholder.