We need more Lower Tier Bulls

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.

Stocker Steve
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Re: We need more Lower Tier Bulls

Postby Stocker Steve » Tue May 16, 2017 6:43 am

elkwc wrote:The current market here is flooded with bulls.


80 at about $1.06/lb yesterday

is that lower tier?
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Re: We need more Lower Tier Bulls

Postby True Grit Farms » Tue May 16, 2017 6:54 am

Raven folks like you are a double edged sword. On one hand they help the seedstock market, on the other they damage it tremendously. The only difference is some folks have better cows. The larger seedstock producer has a larger pool to draw from, looks and EPD wise. Everyone has the same bulls available to them through AI.
Raven how many calves out of your 16 cows are going to end up at the sale barn being sold as feeder calves?
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Re: We need more Lower Tier Bulls

Postby TennesseeTuxedo » Tue May 16, 2017 7:00 am

Bright Raven wrote:The average cow/calf operation in Kentucky is about 20 head. They buy bulls for about $1500 or less. As someone mentioned, many buy culled bulls at the Stockyards.

The cost share program for improvement of herd genetics is intended to encourage producers to use better bulls. It has helped.

I bought my first bull (a registered Angus) for about $1800. When his photo was put up on Cattle Today back in 2013, he was massacred. I had him about 16 months and sold him. At that time, I began to AI. I still needed a bull so I bought a Rocking P bull ( registered Bull with Built Right pedigree) for $2500. I kept Spartacus about 2 years and leased him. While on lease, a guy saw him and I sold him. For the last two years, I have been total AI. I do not have a bull and that is a pleasure. I have only 16 cows, all registered. So far, they have bred back AI without any problems.

I don't want a bull to deal with but if I did, I would raise my own. I would not pay more than $2500 for a bull.


Have I got a deal for you!
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Bright Raven
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Re: We need more Lower Tier Bulls

Postby Bright Raven » Tue May 16, 2017 7:19 am

True Grit Farms wrote:Raven folks like you are a double edged sword. On one hand they help the seedstock market, on the other they damage it tremendously. The only difference is some folks have better cows. The larger seedstock producer has a larger pool to draw from, looks and EPD wise. Everyone has the same bulls available to them through AI.
Raven how many calves out of your 16 cows are going to end up at the sale barn being sold as feeder calves?


I would estimate 25 per cent. I retain my best at least for now. As long as the people who buy them are happy. Then I am too.

I am not expecting a monument to be erected after I die saying, "Here lies the man who advanced Simmentals into the next century".

I guarantee every heifer I sell is with the calf that I say she is bred to. I will even pay for the DNA test if the buyer decides to perform it.

IMO: Vince, you are deluding yourself about what is going on in the cattle markets. You present it like it is a sacred mission. People have been selling and trading cattle of all kinds and qualities since they were domesticated from Aurochs. It is amusing reading some of your naive posts. Please keep it up. :D
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Re: We need more Lower Tier Bulls

Postby FlyingLSimmentals » Tue May 16, 2017 8:48 am

Ron, have you never or ever going to price one of your bulls above $2500. I wouldn't ever price one above $2500 if that is all I'm ever gonna be willing to pay for one. Remember a few years back $2500 couldn't hardly buy a Reg. Black Simmental Bull.

Also, AI bull calves aren't always kicked out to be awesome and even if they are then his calves are just meant to be average because they aren't from a AI bull. At Seed Stock Sales they preach their bulls up like gold, from such and such sire and cow family etc.... buy one and then try and take one of their calves back to a seed stock sale. Oh if he was an AI bred son or if you can get her AI we'll accept him or her in the sale. No wonder from time to time it's hard to find an outcross.

I approach it from a Seed Stock Side as well as a Commercial Cow & Calf side. Because I sell a few seed stock but again most our calves go to the auction barn. So I can see both sides of the coin. The Seed Stock producer has to make money he has a lot of work and upkeep producing replacements and I want him to stay in business. Now selling commercial feeder calves at the sale barn, margins can be tight so I understand pinching pennies on buying replacements "bulls and heifers". But I don't want to rip of the replacement or seed stock producer but I want a bull I can make money with. The best I can remember the bulls we have bought here since I've been big enough to be on the farm ranged from $1800-$2900. I've bid higher than that but have never been lucky enough to get those bulls.
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Re: We need more Lower Tier Bulls

Postby Bright Raven » Tue May 16, 2017 9:38 am

Mike,

My girls do not want a bull on the farm. They are not driven by sex. I sold Spartacus after I heard a list of their grievances. Then I ask for a vote. They voted 16 to 0 against him. It was not based on bad behavior. Spart was a good guy. But he was always hitting them up for sex and they got tired of it. My girls enjoy pregnancy. They have a contract with me to AI them. The less fuss and muss, the happier they are. Just yesterday, I went to the back 30. There laying by the creek in the shade of a kind old sycamore was the 16 gravid girls. All in A glow enjoying their pregnancy without a bull or the kids bothering them. Fat, slick and happy. Why would I change anything?
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Re: We need more Lower Tier Bulls

Postby FlyingLSimmentals » Tue May 16, 2017 10:05 am

I wouldn't change anything with just 16 cows especially with your skills. Just saying AI calves aren't always terrifically better or better at all. I wouldn't have gave out the top figure "$2,500" I would pay for a bull and try and sell a bull higher. I understand now because you have 16 cows but still don't think I would have stated it unless my bulls for sale were always gonna be $2500 and below.
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Re: We need more Lower Tier Bulls

Postby Bright Raven » Tue May 16, 2017 10:21 am

Mike. Kidding u. Tedding hay. Later
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Re: We need more Lower Tier Bulls

Postby southernultrablack » Tue May 16, 2017 10:40 am

http://www.beefmagazine.com/blog/how-mu ... orth.......
Something that I thought pertained to this topic.
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Re: We need more Lower Tier Bulls

Postby Stocker Steve » Tue May 16, 2017 10:45 am

I have a cull bull if anyone is interested.

He is black!!!!
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Re: We need more Lower Tier Bulls

Postby Bright Raven » Tue May 16, 2017 11:33 am

FlyingLSimmentals wrote:I wouldn't change anything with just 16 cows especially with your skills. Just saying AI calves aren't always terrifically better or better at all. I wouldn't have gave out the top figure "$2,500" I would pay for a bull and try and sell a bull higher. I understand now because you have 16 cows but still don't think I would have stated it unless my bulls for sale were always gonna be $2500 and below.


AI is perfect for me. Fire Sweep knows the pedigrees and phenotype of my cows. She sees my cows every year. With one bull, I don't have many options for matching bulls to the cow. For example, if I have a cow that is framey, she matches it to a bull that will help. She also compliments the cow with bulls that promote their traits.

I should not have set a dollar amount. I should simply say, I have no intentions of buying a bull or growing a bull to breed my cows.
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Re: We need more Lower Tier Bulls

Postby Bestoutwest » Tue May 16, 2017 12:54 pm

Bright Raven wrote:Mike,

My girls do not want a bull on the farm. They are not driven by sex. I sold Spartacus after I heard a list of their grievances. Then I ask for a vote. They voted 16 to 0 against him. It was not based on bad behavior. Spart was a good guy. But he was always hitting them up for sex and they got tired of it. My girls enjoy pregnancy. They have a contract with me to AI them. The less fuss and muss, the happier they are. Just yesterday, I went to the back 30. There laying by the creek in the shade of a kind old sycamore was the 16 gravid girls. All in A glow enjoying their pregnancy without a bull or the kids bothering them. Fat, slick and happy. Why would I change anything?


So your cows are premenopausal? You need to get you some heifers, quick!
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Re: We need more Lower Tier Bulls

Postby FlyingLSimmentals » Tue May 16, 2017 12:54 pm

Yeah, Ron I would like to have more of mine AIed from time to time because you do have more choices of bulls, pedigrees, and traits that you could try and match. But again several of these AI sires aren't to terrific. A few I wonder how they ever became an AI sire to begin with. Bettis is one for an example I haven't seen anything good much out of him. But still one day I'm going to take enough time and learn to do AI myself. Now I'm still gonna keep a bull no matter if I'm a Dandy Supreme Technician, because a cattle herd just doesn't look right without a fella and someone needs to keep the boys in line :) .
Don't just rely on someone else's knowledge to come up with your matings. Consulting with them is Good, but also get out there and learn the pedigree's and the bulls traits yourself. I'm sure Fire Sweep knows what she is doing but you never know when something can happen they move far away, health problems etc... it might leave you back in the dark or at the beginning if you're not a learning.
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Re: We need more Lower Tier Bulls

Postby dun » Tue May 16, 2017 1:11 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
FlyingLSimmentals wrote:I wouldn't change anything with just 16 cows especially with your skills. Just saying AI calves aren't always terrifically better or better at all. I wouldn't have gave out the top figure "$2,500" I would pay for a bull and try and sell a bull higher. I understand now because you have 16 cows but still don't think I would have stated it unless my bulls for sale were always gonna be $2500 and below.


AI is perfect for me. Fire Sweep knows the pedigrees and phenotype of my cows. She sees my cows every year. With one bull, I don't have many options for matching bulls to the cow. For example, if I have a cow that is framey, she matches it to a bull that will help. She also compliments the cow with bulls that promote their traits.

I should not have set a dollar amount. I should simply say, I have no intentions of buying a bull or growing a bull to breed my cows.

Until a few years ago we did 100% AI. Now with the problems that have come up I don;t have the strength to do it as much now. Even when I can get someone to help it isn;t as convenient. That's why we run a bull with a most and then AI only a dozen or so. If They don;pt settle to AI they go see the bull. Using bulls we raised is rewarding but not nearly as much as when I did all the AI work myself. I felt like a proud pappa every time a calf was born.
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Re: We need more Lower Tier Bulls

Postby Bright Raven » Tue May 16, 2017 3:02 pm

Bestoutwest wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:Mike,

My girls do not want a bull on the farm. They are not driven by sex. I sold Spartacus after I heard a list of their grievances. Then I ask for a vote. They voted 16 to 0 against him. It was not based on bad behavior. Spart was a good guy. But he was always hitting them up for sex and they got tired of it. My girls enjoy pregnancy. They have a contract with me to AI them. The less fuss and muss, the happier they are. Just yesterday, I went to the back 30. There laying by the creek in the shade of a kind old sycamore was the 16 gravid girls. All in A glow enjoying their pregnancy without a bull or the kids bothering them. Fat, slick and happy. Why would I change anything?


So your cows are premenopausal? You need to get you some heifers, quick!


Yes. I am keeping the best. Lol
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