True Grit - Seedstock

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.

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Bright Raven
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True Grit - Seedstock

Postby Bright Raven » Tue May 16, 2017 3:17 pm

Vince,

I address this to you. In the past couple months you have initiated threads on Seedstock issues. You had the one that discussed seller obligations. Recently, you have mentioned a new law you passed requiring all seedstock producers to shoot a per cent of their calf crop behind the left ear. I cannot remember what the percentage is but I remember you saying it is strictly enforced.

As the self appointed Enforcer of the National Seedstock Act would you please outline the primary statues and what the penalties Are?

BTW: this is a clear contradiction of your assertion of being a conservative. Come on! Tell the truth! You voted for Hillary.
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True Grit Farms
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Re: True Grit - Seedstock

Postby True Grit Farms » Tue May 16, 2017 3:58 pm

I just try and do what I feel is right for the situation. I'm going to do my best to make sure that the phenotype is correct on the cattle that I sell as seedstock. Genomic testing and EPD'S don't mean anything if the animal has a bad udder or wrong color, or color in the wrong spots. And to make matters worse, lots of times a bad udder won't show up till just before - after the first calf. I usually cull for bad udders, and the wrong color goes into my commercial or recip herd.
My cull rate is 70-80% on seedstock. But I don't want to sell anything off the farm anymore.

The penalty is self inflicted. Some folks can't live within their own body without altering their state mind.
I'll try and refrain from politics and religion. Because you know how I voted, and that I'm a sinner.
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Re: True Grit - Seedstock

Postby Bright Raven » Tue May 16, 2017 4:12 pm

Vince,

Personally, I don't think I have a right or privilege to inject myself into how anyone husbands their cattle. If I did, phenotype would not be my concern. My bigger concern would be the horrible conditions some cattle are produced in.

You are more concerned with where a spot is. I am more concerned with cattle raised in manure up to their knees and footrot so bad their claws are falling off.
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Re: True Grit - Seedstock

Postby Nesikep » Tue May 16, 2017 4:48 pm

Bright Raven wrote:Vince,

Personally, I don't think I have a right or privilege to inject myself into how anyone husbands their cattle. If I did, phenotype would not be my concern. My bigger concern would be the horrible conditions some cattle are produced in.

You are more concerned with where a spot is. I am more concerned with cattle raised in manure up to their knees and footrot so bad their claws are falling off.

PETA member in disguise warning here!!! :P

Are we talking dogs or cows? Sounds like a puppy mill situation.

IN my situation, I keep about 30-40% of my heifers as replacements, and once every few years I'll keep a bull (about a 95% steer rate), and the last one I kept got culled as a yearling for not living up to expectations. I base it mostly on temperament and phenotype, and past experiences with that family of cows... Yeah, I wish my current bull didn't have the white spotting gene, and it may come back to bite me later, I'll have to deal with that down the line I guess, but in the grand scheme of raising beef, it's of lesser importance than hooves, udders, and generally sound conformation, which I think this guy has going for him
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Re: True Grit - Seedstock

Postby True Grit Farms » Tue May 16, 2017 4:52 pm

Image

Like this?
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Re: True Grit - Seedstock

Postby True Grit Farms » Tue May 16, 2017 5:00 pm

Bright Raven wrote:Vince,

Personally, I don't think I have a right or privilege to inject myself into how anyone husbands their cattle. If I did, phenotype would not be my concern. My bigger concern would be the horrible conditions some cattle are produced in.

You are more concerned with where a spot is. I am more concerned with cattle raised in manure up to their knees and footrot so bad their claws are falling off.


I'd be more worried about how some people live in your beloved Africa. We're raising cattle for the enjoyment of doing it, dang sure not the money. So why not do the right thing and raise cattle that have the right phenotype for the breed?
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Re: True Grit - Seedstock

Postby Bright Raven » Tue May 16, 2017 5:05 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:Image

Like this?


Grit: every cowboy and cowgirl on this forum knows of mistreated cattle. I mention that only to put it into perspective.

Grit, my point is you do a lot of posturing about how the seedstock business should or should not be run. I am not complaining. I take it for exactly what it is: commentary. Just don't get upset if I think it is mostly hot air.
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Re: True Grit - Seedstock

Postby Bright Raven » Tue May 16, 2017 5:08 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:Vince,

Personally, I don't think I have a right or privilege to inject myself into how anyone husbands their cattle. If I did, phenotype would not be my concern. My bigger concern would be the horrible conditions some cattle are produced in.

You are more concerned with where a spot is. I am more concerned with cattle raised in manure up to their knees and footrot so bad their claws are falling off.


I'd be more worried about how some people live in your beloved Africa. We're raising cattle for the enjoyment of doing it, dang sure not the money. So why not do the right thing and raise cattle that have the right phenotype for the breed?


You make it sound like someone is deliberately pursuing a course of raising poor cattle! Tell me who that is?
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Re: True Grit - Seedstock

Postby Bright Raven » Tue May 16, 2017 5:14 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:Vince,

Personally, I don't think I have a right or privilege to inject myself into how anyone husbands their cattle. If I did, phenotype would not be my concern. My bigger concern would be the horrible conditions some cattle are produced in.

You are more concerned with where a spot is. I am more concerned with cattle raised in manure up to their knees and footrot so bad their claws are falling off.


I'd be more worried about how some people live in your beloved Africa. We're raising cattle for the enjoyment of doing it, dang sure not the money. So why not do the right thing and raise cattle that have the right phenotype for the breed?


Grit: I think you mean the right "traits" for the breed. Phenotype is the outward expression of the genotype.
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Re: True Grit - Seedstock

Postby callmefence » Tue May 16, 2017 5:18 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:Vince,

Personally, I don't think I have a right or privilege to inject myself into how anyone husbands their cattle. If I did, phenotype would not be my concern. My bigger concern would be the horrible conditions some cattle are produced in.

You are more concerned with where a spot is. I am more concerned with cattle raised in manure up to their knees and footrot so bad their claws are falling off.


I'd be more worried about how some people live in your beloved Africa. We're raising cattle for the enjoyment of doing it, dang sure not the money. So why not do the right thing and raise cattle that have the right phenotype for the breed?


Why is that the only right thing.
What's wrong with a working man who is lucky enough to get to do this letting his cattle work for him. Americans do eat hamburger you know. I must have to much to do. I don't worry much about others run their business.
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Re: True Grit - Seedstock

Postby M-5 » Tue May 16, 2017 6:04 pm

Your view of ideal cow conditions is slightly tilted , all of us don't pet or get too concerned if you can see a little pin or a rib.
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Re: True Grit - Seedstock

Postby Bright Raven » Tue May 16, 2017 7:16 pm

M-5 wrote:Your view of ideal cow conditions is slightly tilted , all of us don't pet or get too concerned if you can see a little pin or a rib.


I do not view over conditioned cows as ideal. Despite what TT keeps saying about feeding grain, I don't feed enough to cause the condition problem I have. It is a combination of easy keeping cows and excellent forage. Fire Sweep says I am under stocked.

I am concerned about 4 of my cows. I do not consider over conditioned cows as IDEAL.

I apologize to Vince if I hurt his feelings. :D

He posted this earlier:
Raven folks like you are a double edged sword. On one hand they help the seedstock market, on the other they damage it tremendously.

I am only defending myself. :cboy:
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Re: True Grit - Seedstock

Postby callmefence » Tue May 16, 2017 7:26 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
M-5 wrote:Your view of ideal cow conditions is slightly tilted , all of us don't pet or get too concerned if you can see a little pin or a rib.


I do not view over conditioned cows as ideal. Despite what TT keeps saying about feeding grain, I don't feed enough to cause the condition problem I have. It is a combination of easy keeping cows and excellent forage. Fire Sweep says I am under stocked.

I am concerned about 4 of my cows. I do not consider over conditioned cows as IDEAL.

I apologize to Vince if I hurt his feelings. :D

He posted this earlier:
Raven folks like you are a double edged sword. On one hand they help the seedstock market, on the other they damage it tremendously.

I am only defending myself. :cboy:


Not a problem I've ever had but..

Have you tried making your water , feed, mineral as far apart as possible to get the cows to travel more.
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Re: True Grit - Seedstock

Postby True Grit Farms » Tue May 16, 2017 7:36 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
M-5 wrote:Your view of ideal cow conditions is slightly tilted , all of us don't pet or get too concerned if you can see a little pin or a rib.


I do not view over conditioned cows as ideal. Despite what TT keeps saying about feeding grain, I don't feed enough to cause the condition problem I have. It is a combination of easy keeping cows and excellent forage. Fire Sweep says I am under stocked.

I am concerned about 4 of my cows. I do not consider over conditioned cows as IDEAL.

I apologize to Vince if I hurt his feelings. :D

He posted this earlier:
Raven folks like you are a double edged sword. On one hand they help the seedstock market, on the other they damage it tremendously.

I am only defending myself. :cboy:


Can you imagine what the price of seedstock would be without the small operation?
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Re: True Grit - Seedstock

Postby Bright Raven » Tue May 16, 2017 7:40 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
M-5 wrote:Your view of ideal cow conditions is slightly tilted , all of us don't pet or get too concerned if you can see a little pin or a rib.


I do not view over conditioned cows as ideal. Despite what TT keeps saying about feeding grain, I don't feed enough to cause the condition problem I have. It is a combination of easy keeping cows and excellent forage. Fire Sweep says I am under stocked.

I am concerned about 4 of my cows. I do not consider over conditioned cows as IDEAL.

I apologize to Vince if I hurt his feelings. :D

He posted this earlier:
Raven folks like you are a double edged sword. On one hand they help the seedstock market, on the other they damage it tremendously.

I am only defending myself. :cboy:


Can you imagine what the price of seedstock would be without the small operation?


Vince: how do you define seedstock? You put me in that category this morning with that comment about double edge sword. Why do you say I do "tremendous" damage?
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