Page 2 of 6

Re: If old genitics

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:37 am
by WalnutCrest
Show cattle are the antithesis of what beef production is about. IMO.

A great way too teach kids responsibility, how to win / lose in a proper way, etc? Sure. Absolutely.

But, the things learned, if done at scale, will bankrupt an operation faster than almost anything else. So why teach a kid how to make a tail fluffy and apply paint to get the color just right? What does that have too did with the safe, responsible production of beef?

Re: If old genitics

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:49 pm
by Hollis
JWBrahman wrote:Hollis/Allforage and the other guys chasing the past,
Yall need to have more faith in yourself and your own breeding programs. There is absolutely zero need for a cattleman to go 50 years in the past to find the magic elixir. It's one thing to use an animal several generations back in the pedigree, it's something completely different to go 50-70 years back in history.

If you can't tell which cattle are successful under your system old semen won't help.



I agree on some things. I really think some of the old bulls were really good and could still be useful today. As for toads take that however u want. I would rather have a frame 4 cow that produces over 50% weaning weight calf than a frame 7 that weans a 35% calf. Lbs are lbs.

But before u say something about to small , I can tell you that grass fed may be a fad but it's working right now. Now I also agree 3 and below are to little. So marketing, and several other things here to consider.

I am going to raise what pleases my eyes. Not numbers, or names.

Re: If old genitics

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:52 pm
by WalnutCrest
... and ...

FS 4 and 1000 lbs ... weaning 50% ... 500 lbs
FS 7 and 1600 lbs ... weaning 35% ... 560 lbs

... the value of the extra 60 lbs was generated at what cost?

Re: If old genitics

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:58 pm
by Hollis
While I admit I have a few lighter heifers that are 1000 lbs I also have several in the 1200 lb so 600 lb. And I think we both know that not every cow or calf is the same.

That's why their are different breeds, different colors and different types. U chase your dreams and I will chase mine

Re: If old genitics

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:02 pm
by Hollis
WalnutCrest wrote:... and ...

FS 4 and 1000 lbs ... weaning 50% ... 500 lbs
FS 7 and 1600 lbs ... weaning 35% ... 560 lbs

... the value of the extra 60 lbs was generated at what cost?


That probably is different between your operation and mine.

How much corn do u buy to feed? That is a cost rather u raise corn or buy it.

I would rather have a 5 frame ideally but not everyone is the same.

Re: If old genitics

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:11 pm
by Hollis

Re: If old genitics

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:30 pm
by True Grit Farms
Hollis wrote:
WalnutCrest wrote:... and ...

FS 4 and 1000 lbs ... weaning 50% ... 500 lbs
FS 7 and 1600 lbs ... weaning 35% ... 560 lbs

... the value of the extra 60 lbs was generated at what cost?


That probably is different between your operation and mine.

How much corn do u buy to feed? That is a cost rather u raise corn or buy it.

I would rather have a 5 frame ideally but not everyone is the same.


He was trying to make a point that smaller framed cows were efficient. Myself I sell beef and year in and year out a langer frame cow puts more beef on the ground for less inputs. FYI, all cows are grass fed. And the best tasting one's are corn fed.

Re: If old genitics

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:31 pm
by WalnutCrest
Hollis wrote:
WalnutCrest wrote:... and ...

FS 4 and 1000 lbs ... weaning 50% ... 500 lbs
FS 7 and 1600 lbs ... weaning 35% ... 560 lbs

... the value of the extra 60 lbs was generated at what cost?


That probably is different between your operation and mine.

How much corn do u buy to feed? That is a cost rather u raise corn or buy it.

I would rather have a 5 frame ideally but not everyone is the same.


You're new around here so I won't beat you up much ...

I love me some 4.0-5.5 FS Aubracs and 3.0-4.0 FS Mashona. I raise FBs of both breeds and F1 crosses (both ways) of each.

And, when I'm not in the middle of transitioning farms (which, without boring you for details, I've done three times in the last eight months ... am FINALLY settled), I feed zero corn or DDG.

Here's a picture of our herdsire, Zach. He's a FS 4.0 and weighed 2087lbs about two weeks prior to this photo. Two weeks ago, he was just in for his BSE, and his scrotal was 41 and shot 92% good.

Image

So, with that background, you tell me whether or not you think I'd be interested in a bull with the measurements you had in the post immediately above this reply ...

Re: If old genitics

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:01 pm
by Bigfoot
Back in the day, I liked Pine Drive Big Sky. He put a lot of daylight under his calves, and that wouldn't really fly today. They were growth oriented though, and the heifers made some decent cows. He came along about the time I was learning to AI. I actually have a sprinkling of cows, that go back to him. Great big girls with odd looking udders, but never had to sell one because of an udder.

Imho, he gave you the growth of a continental in an angus package. The angus package hasn't offered growth as an option in a while.

Re: If old genitics

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:56 am
by wacocowboy
A lot of my Beefmaster go back to foundation bloodlines so I still use old stuff.

Re: If old genitics

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:57 am
by JWBrahman
Jay H,
The polled Hereford has made so much improvement on the cancer eyed, prolapsing funky udders of yesteryear. Most of us will not live long enough to breed that out of a commercial operation. Funky udders leave here after the first calf.

Tiny cattle lose money on grass fed beef. I am not a rich kid from California with daddy paying my bills. I need a bull calf to GROW on grass so he can be beef by Turkey Day. There are hundreds of guys selling grass fed in my area and nobody uses old Hereford semen.

Re: If old genitics

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:39 am
by Hollis
JWBrahman wrote:Jay H,
The polled Hereford has made so much improvement on the cancer eyed, prolapsing funky udders of yesteryear. Most of us will not live long enough to breed that out of a commercial operation. Funky udders leave here after the first calf.

Tiny cattle lose money on grass fed beef. I am not a rich kid from California with daddy paying my bills. I need a bull calf to GROW on grass so he can be beef by Turkey Day. There are hundreds of guys selling grass fed in my area and nobody uses old Hereford semen.


So u can have a calf ready by thanksgiving on grass. What weight if u don't mind me asking, and are u saying weaned fall calf here or spring calf?

And u are right no one uses old hereford semen. I raise what I want. No daddy's money here.
I think the skinny a $$ed Angus black things look horrible. I have seen some occ genetics I like.
Guys around here promote grass fed but u drive by and see feed trucks and corn everywhere. Lol. And I agree u can get them to small.

Re: If old genitics

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:47 pm
by JWBrahman
January-February bull calves. An F1 Brangus or Braford can easily hit 1,000 with no money outta my pitifully small stack of cash. Most grass fed guys are doing a 3 way cross and charging $1.80 lb, customer pays processing. It's the only way I can get bull money for a steer.

Re: If old genitics

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:29 am
by Hollis
Someone thinks old genetics are worth something.

http://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go& ... grimage%2F

Re: If old genitics

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:06 am
by JWBrahman
Hollis wrote:Someone thinks old genetics are worth something.

http://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go& ... grimage%2F


There was a place in California using those same Aberdeen Genetics, Fair Oaks Ranch. Alacowman posted photos and links a while back. They are already out of business.

I've been reading the Purity Thread.

You got a handful of guys shooting each other in the testicles. None of those characters are customers if you catch my drift. The best bull posted on there in a long time was Ed Hawks' herd sire. I wouldn't buy a stick of gum from the purity crowd.