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Re: A couple of chromed up Simmental heifers to pick on.

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:10 pm
by cattleman99
Not hard to sell bulls with 100-110 lb birth weights in Canada. You see them at sales regularly. I don't want calves lighter than 80-85 lbs. Anything smaller than that born in a cold snap and your just asking for trouble.

That Shorthorn/Simmental cross works great. They wean off heavy weights.

Re: A couple of chromed up Simmental heifers to pick on.

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:30 pm
by Bright Raven
True Grit Farms wrote:If I had a cow that had a 120 lb calf she'd be culled ASAP. You kind of breed towards the goal of having large calves. We breed for low birth weight by your standards, 70 to 75 pounds is ideal for cows and 60 to 65 on heifers. I'm not living my life around my cows, so birth weight is very important to me as a management tool.


Third calf in 5 days just born 2 hours ago. Dam is a heifer I raised. Her Dam is a Hudson Pine/Rocking P bred cow whose Sire is JS Sure Bet 4T. The heifer is one month shy of 2 years old. Calf weighs 78 pounds at 290 days post AI to Uno Mas. Unassisted already passed her Placenta. My cows may be bred better than yours because I have no problems with 90 pound calves for cows and 85 pound calves for heifers. I have had at least 3 heifers I can remember that had 100 pound calves unassisted. This is going on my 8th year. I lost one heifer due to severed uterine artery delivering a 120 pound calf. In 8 years, I may have intervened on 6 births. Probably got impatient on 3 of those and should have stayed out of it.

Personally, I don't want little scrawny calves.

Re: A couple of chromed up Simmental heifers to pick on.

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:37 pm
by True Grit Farms
Nesikep wrote:I don't breed for it, it just happens, I've always selected for lower birthweights.. It's well documented that northern cows will have heavier calves than southern cows, and certainly at least SOME of the difference can be attributed to that.. I don't think many southern cows go through sub zero temps for a couple months of the year.
I do like about a 75 lb calf on the heifers, after that, as long as they don't have trouble, I don't care what the birthweight is on terminal calves. Decent heifers here will usually do about 85 lbs without assistance, if they can't do that, I'm probably not going to keep calves from them or keep them around long


It just doesn't happen, breeding cattle is a process, and with the right management the results are very predictable. A cow with a high birth weight will have a calf with a high birth weight, and her calf will have a calf with a high birth weight. With proper management you can do anything, just look at Artesianspringsfarm's cattle and his new bull. Winter and sub zero conditions he lives that every year, 200+ inches of snow every year. His cattle are surprising small, frame 4 to 5 and thick and tender, he breeds to his grass fed beef market.

Re: A couple of chromed up Simmental heifers to pick on.

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:47 pm
by True Grit Farms
Bright Raven wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:If I had a cow that had a 120 lb calf she'd be culled ASAP. You kind of breed towards the goal of having large calves. We breed for low birth weight by your standards, 70 to 75 pounds is ideal for cows and 60 to 65 on heifers. I'm not living my life around my cows, so birth weight is very important to me as a management tool.


Third calf in 5 days just born 2 hours ago. Dam is a heifer I raised. Her Dam is a Hudson Pine/Rocking P bred cow whose Sire is JS Sure Bet 4T. The heifer is one month shy of 2 years old. Calf weighs 78 pounds at 290 days post AI to Uno Mas. Unassisted already passed her Placenta. My cows may be bred better than yours because I have no problems with 90 pound calves for cows and 85 pound calves for heifers. I have had at least 3 heifers I can remember that had 100 pound calves unassisted. This is going on my 8th year. I lost one heifer due to severed uterine artery delivering a 120 pound calf. In 8 years, I may have intervened on 6 births. Probably got impatient on 3 of those and should have stayed out of it.

Personally, I don't want little scrawny calves.


The fact is, like it or not low birth weight and CE bulls sell the best, so that's what we breed towards. Ten pounds of birthweight and a lower CE will cost you a $1k on a bull at some sales.

Re: A couple of chromed up Simmental heifers to pick on.

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:49 pm
by Nesikep
Everyone is breeding for their market, whatever works for you is great, and smaller cows do seem to fit the grassfed market nicely, but around here the sale barn still wants a certain amount of frame to them.. My old man loves the Frame 8, 1800 lb Shorthorns.. me, not so much, I find a FS5-6 about nice. I do look at the head and body shape of my calves to select for the wet noodle style rather than the cinderblocks.

JD720.. sorry about the derailment!

Re: A couple of chromed up Simmental heifers to pick on.

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:53 pm
by Bright Raven
True Grit Farms wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:If I had a cow that had a 120 lb calf she'd be culled ASAP. You kind of breed towards the goal of having large calves. We breed for low birth weight by your standards, 70 to 75 pounds is ideal for cows and 60 to 65 on heifers. I'm not living my life around my cows, so birth weight is very important to me as a management tool.


Third calf in 5 days just born 2 hours ago. Dam is a heifer I raised. Her Dam is a Hudson Pine/Rocking P bred cow whose Sire is JS Sure Bet 4T. The heifer is one month shy of 2 years old. Calf weighs 78 pounds at 290 days post AI to Uno Mas. Unassisted already passed her Placenta. My cows may be bred better than yours because I have no problems with 90 pound calves for cows and 85 pound calves for heifers. I have had at least 3 heifers I can remember that had 100 pound calves unassisted. This is going on my 8th year. I lost one heifer due to severed uterine artery delivering a 120 pound calf. In 8 years, I may have intervened on 6 births. Probably got impatient on 3 of those and should have stayed out of it.

Personally, I don't want little scrawny calves.


The fact is, like it or not low birth weight and CE bulls sell the best, so that's what we breed towards. Ten pounds of birthweight and a lower CE will cost you a $1k on a bull at some sales.


The pendulum is swinging, you better not get caught up in those tiny little calves. Fire Sweep sells a lot of bulls. Some of those buyers say they are not happy with little weak scrawny calves from CE bulls. I agree, 100 pound birthweights scare most away. But you are on the light end at 70 to 75 pounds at least for simmentals.

Re: A couple of chromed up Simmental heifers to pick on.

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:38 pm
by Jeanne - Simme Valley
I castrate all bull calves born over 100# - whether they have CE EPD's or not. But, most of my good bull calves (sold as bulls) are in the 90's. I just had twin heifers born - 70# & 74#. They are sooooo tiny compared to what I'm used to.
My cattle are all in the 5-6 frame size range. Average cow weight is about 1500#. I rarely breed my heifers to a super "calving ease" sire - but, I don't breed them to a cow killer either. I don't "babysit" my cows because I expect any trouble. But, I want to be available for that abnormal presentation.
And I do love those chromed calves!!!

Re: A couple of chromed up Simmental heifers to pick on.

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:25 pm
by True Grit Farms
We have no cows over 1400 lbs, and are tied down to using only Select Sires semen for all the AI cattle. Normally sell around 10 bulls between the two UGA bull evaluation test sales and every bull will sell above the adverage sale price. Also have four bulls at the Clemson bull evaluation sale for the first time and looking forward to seeing how they do. Also sold two bulls through the Gardiner Angus sale in September that brought above the adverage sale price. We've been very happy with the where the bulls have been selling in relation to the market. Just not real happy with the market at the moment.

Re: A couple of chromed up Simmental heifers to pick on.

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:11 pm
by Jeanne - Simme Valley
I have a buyer that actually contacts me before calving season & has me NOT castrate heavy weight bulls. He will buy 3-5 at a time. I sell them without papers, no guarantees, for a premium over my steer market. He has never had any calving difficulties. I will only keep the ones that are a little over 100#, like up to 110#. Anything over that, I won't even let him have them as bulls.

Re: A couple of chromed up Simmental heifers to pick on.

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:31 pm
by Bright Raven
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:I castrate all bull calves born over 100# - whether they have CE EPD's or not. But, most of my good bull calves (sold as bulls) are in the 90's. I just had twin heifers born - 70# & 74#. They are sooooo tiny compared to what I'm used to.
My cattle are all in the 5-6 frame size range. Average cow weight is about 1500#.
I rarely breed my heifers to a super "calving ease" sire - but, I don't breed them to a cow killer either. I don't "babysit" my cows because I expect any trouble. But, I want to be available for that abnormal presentation.
And I do love those chromed calves!!!


Jeanne,

My average birth weight is 87 pounds. I had three calves born last year that were in the 100 pound range. My average cow is in the 1500 pound range. Any calf born under 75 pounds here is a scrawny runt. Sounds like we are very similar.

I love the chrome too.

Re: A couple of chromed up Simmental heifers to pick on.

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:22 pm
by jd720
Thanks for all the nice comments I am very happy with these little gals. This Optimizer heifer will be the fifth heifer we`ve kept out of that cow and 2 Maine heifers out of her were sold. I breed everything Simmental now. Just wondering how your Uno Mas calf looks I`ve been thinking about using him on some heifers this fall. I see they have sexed semen on him but the sexed semen on other bulls I`ve used in the past was a waste of money but that was 5 or 6 years ago. Has it gotten any better ?

Re: A couple of chromed up Simmental heifers to pick on.

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:08 pm
by Fire Sweep Ranch
I have bull buyers that want bulls in the 90's. They run them on cows, not heifers. They are looking at performance, and do not want small scrawny calves. Our calves average in the 80's. But I ACTUALLY weigh my cows, SEVERAL TIMES a year. Each time they go through the chute (breeding, vaccinating....) they are weighed. Most of my herd is in the 1600 pound size range. I bet I do not have a one that is under 1200, and those are first calf heifers!

Now, jd, about Uno Mas. My experience is you will either love them or hate them. My personal experience is I have not liked a single one I have had born here, but I have seen some nice ones at shows. They lack growth, performance, and tend to have a LOT of hair! My bull buyers do not want hair, and I have yet to have an Uno Mas bull born on this place stay a bull. The heifers are just common, nothing special. None have stayed, but our herd is small, so my selection for replacements is high. I have never had luck with heifer sexed semen, we bought 10 straws of heifer sexed Upgrade, gotn 1 pregnancy on that. Had 10 straws of heifer sexed Movin Forward, got 1 pregnancy from that also. I will stick with conventional, we get about 78% on conventional around here. Are you looking for CE on heifers? If percentage does not matter, Lockdown is phenomenal (https://herdbook.org/simmapp/action/ani ... rs=2658496). Hard to get EPD's better than that, and he throws the white face. Every Lockdown calf we have had has been phenomenal! They are born small and GROW GROW GROW! Most of the heifers we are selling as spring breds in our fall sale are bred to him. Conception on his semen is good too. Iron Hide is another good calving ease bull, but half blood. Those suckers are born sucking! Vigorous at birth, they hit the ground running. If you are looking for purebred, LRS Elevate is starting to make some noise. We have our first one coming in less than a month, so I will know more. I like that he has a different pedigree (https://herdbook.org/simmapp/action/ani ... rs=2842534). Hope that helps a little!

Re: A couple of chromed up Simmental heifers to pick on.

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:04 pm
by True Grit Farms
I'll second Upgrade, he did good for us, out of 41 SimAngus bulls in Tifton he produced the second and fifth highest selling bulls.

Re: A couple of chromed up Simmental heifers to pick on.

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:51 pm
by Jeanne - Simme Valley
I have never used Uno Mas - never liked what I saw. But, I have heard that his calves are great temperament.

Re: A couple of chromed up Simmental heifers to pick on.

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:32 pm
by Bright Raven
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:I have never used Uno Mas - never liked what I saw. But, I have heard that his calves are great temperament.


Jeanne,

Here is an Uno Mas (Reina) heifer I raised here on Bright Raven Farm. Her Dam is a Grandmaster. She is my first Uno Mas. This picture was taken this evening. She will be 285 days post AI to Elevate on 9/28/17.

I agree with Fire Sweep. I have had a couple good and a couple that are ordinary. I like Reina. She is springing. Her udder looks good so far. I expect she will not go the full 285 days gestation.
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