Pharo cattle company

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trin
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Pharo cattle company

Postby trin » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:49 pm

Has anybody used any Semen from pharo cattle company? What was pros and cons?
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Postby Lazy M » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:59 pm

trin wrote:Has anybody used any Semen from pharo cattle company? What was pros and cons?

Pro: low input; Con: low growth
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Postby elkwc » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:38 am

Lazy M wrote:
trin wrote:Has anybody used any Semen from pharo cattle company? What was pros and cons?

Pro: low input; Con: low growth

Very well stated. They are too moderate for the buyers in our area. Many frame 4 and shorter. Calves are docked when sold.
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Postby ddd75 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:15 am

if you have a large number of cattle I can see the decreased amount of weight to feed would put you possibly in a better position, even with a lower price per calf.
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Postby WalnutCrest » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:12 am

I'd describe it this way ...

To make money in cattle, you need to play offense and defense ... you need to market your cattle and you need to keep expenses low.

Pharo helps you play defense.
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Postby ALACOWMAN » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:59 am

elkwc wrote:Very well stated. They are too moderate for the buyers in our area. Many frame 4 and shorter. Calves are docked when sold.

Its a wonder he don't hold a seminar with them,telling them how their screwing up...
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Postby Ky hills » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:09 pm

elkwc wrote:
Lazy M wrote:
trin wrote:Has anybody used any Semen from pharo cattle company? What was pros and cons?

Pro: low input; Con: low growth

Very well stated. They are too moderate for the buyers in our area. Many frame 4 and shorter. Calves are docked when sold.


From what I have seen they would be way too small of a frame to be practical on the market here. The larger frame feeder calves do better in sales here, the more moderate ones just don't bring what ones with some frame will. Calves that are small framed would get seriously docked.
Even if you could run a few more smaller cows, I'm not convinced it would be economical.
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Postby WalnutCrest » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:05 pm

I've wondered about running a framier, yet calving-ease, bull on Pharo cows ...
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Postby Ebenezer » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:23 pm

WalnutCrest wrote:I've wondered about running a framier, yet calving-ease, bull on Pharo cows ...

Hard to get "small" out of cows once you get it in them. Genetic "small" is persistent.
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Postby cattleman99 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:20 pm

WalnutCrest wrote:I've wondered about running a framier, yet calving-ease, bull on Pharo cows ...

Sounds like the potential for a train wreck. Small is small, disperse and start over. It's much easier to bring frame size down in my experience than increase.
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Postby Muddy » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:17 pm

Large framed bull on pharo cows do not always give you large framed calves. I agreed with the others, small framed calves get harshly docked.
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Postby WalnutCrest » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:25 pm

Ebenezer wrote:
WalnutCrest wrote:I've wondered about running a framier, yet calving-ease, bull on Pharo cows ...

Hard to get "small" out of cows once you get it in them. Genetic "small" is persistent.


To avoid any uncertainty, I've never owned a Pharo cow or bull (although I did buy some semen on the Mashona bull he sells semen from) ... just wondering if that's a solution for anyone who things the calves from his bulls are too small.

It's easy to pot-shot almost everyone's program. Pharo is no different.

Seedstock producers need to produce what they produce, and do it consistently so that other people know what they're getting when they get breeding animals from them -- buyer beware. Pharo (imo) does that.

You may not like what he's doing, but he is doing it pretty consistently year in and year out, and so the people who buy his bulls can be really pretty confident that they'll get what they want if they buy a bull from him.
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Postby TexasBred » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:46 pm

Muddy wrote:Large framed bull on pharo cows do not always give you large framed calves. I agreed with the others, small framed calves get harshly docked.

Use to have a couple of "Pharo Pimps" posting on here from time to time....maybe they'll show up.
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Postby HDRider » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:29 pm

One said he got banned
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Postby elkwc » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:00 pm

Will add a few more of my observations on the Pharo cattle. The first time I ever heard about them a coworker brought a catalog to work and was telling me that him and several others were going to his sale and how he had developed cattle that were the answer for all cattlemen in this area. I looked at the catalog and had my doubts. They went to the sale and a few bought some high priced bulls for that time and brought them home. When I saw them it confirmed my initial thoughts when I looked at the catalog. Within a few years not a single breeder still had a bull left. They were docked for the calves and were giving up 60-100 lbs at weaning. Since then I've talked to several others who have tried them and they all tell the same story. One still uses semen from Pharo bulls on his heifers and that is all. He had used them on cows previously but stated like all have that he was giving up too many pounds along with he dock. We were weaning heavier calves in the 60's in the arid region of NM than the Pharo calves wean at. The area of OK where I run cows now had several breeders for a few years and Pharo sold bulls in that area at least once. In a year many of the bulls were for sale on Craiglist and now I don't know of a single breeder who uses them. He is a great marketer and it seems to me he has a knack for finding a new area to market bulls in when one dies out. This is a free country I'm just stating the observations I've made and why we don't consider them. If someone else chooses too that is their right. I've been told some other things by good friends where he lives but won't share it here. I feel he had some good ideas when he started but have took them to an extreme now. He used to partner with some good cattlemen that he no longer does. Again it is a decision each breeder has to make and by being well informed it is easier to make a good decision.
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