Black Simmental

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.
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Redgully
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Black Simmental

Post by Redgully » Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:19 am

I have a question to those with more knowledge than i. I am a red poll breeder and even though i love what the breed has to offer it is becoming frustrating that they are so hard to sell and there doesn't seem to be any demand for them anymore. So i am thinking of changing breeds and believe black Simmental may be have more to offer. I like the idea of black because Angus breeders seem to accept them for a good cross. I have always been a fan of Simmental. But my concern is the gene pool. How big is it and is there a good selection of family lines to breed from. Would there be a demand for bulls also as for a stud selling bulls is the cream. Being from Australia you don't see them around. My plan would be to use my cows and implant embryos to get started. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

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Re: Black Simmental

Post by wbvs58 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:18 am

Not a lot of Simmentals on the East coast here but I have noticed the sales that do occur are well patronised, good clearances and good averages. Certainly not the number in semen catalogues like Angus but there is usually a couple of pages of Simmental bulls after the Angus in my catalogues so not too bad.

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Re: Black Simmental

Post by Redgully » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:10 am

Over here in the west there are not big numbers but they are around most shows. Not many black ones though. Very heavy boned cattle but nice muscling. Most of the semen i find on line is older bulls without many new bulls being added. Mind you if you search for red poll semen you will get a massive choice of about four bulls but once you get talking amongst the breeders there is around 50 bulls in private collection floating about. I'd be guessing the same with Simmental.

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Re: Black Simmental

Post by Redgully » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:36 am

I have been doing a bit more research on simmental in Australia and there seems to be good numbers and a lot of enthusiasm within the breed. There is actually a really good range of genetics available too. Looking very tempting to change direction. I think i might start out with a couple of cows and see where it takes me.

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Re: Black Simmental

Post by Stocker Steve » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:06 am

The most rapidly increasing breed locally. Reds are rare and can actually bring a little more money as seed stock.

Sim Angus bulls are easier to sell here than purebreds. Angus boys are afraid of getting too far away from their breed. Could be tempted to switch. :shock:

We have been crossing them on wf cows. On average - - more hair and more muscle and more weaning weight, but also bigger and higher input replacements. There are some moderate Simi bulls in the catalog, but I think most have too much power for a commercial cow. Aaron advocated 1/4 Simi commercial cows in some previous posts.

Are you planning to sell Simi seedstock?
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Re: Black Simmental

Post by Redgully » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:50 am

I have gone down the pure bred path for the time being just to try something different. Dad had a red poll stud back in the 1970s so we decided to do it again but can't believe how far the breed had been left behind. If i went simmental i feel there would be more ability to breed a good line and be able to sell the bulls, you can't even give a red poll bull away. As it is just a hobby for me it would be more enjoyable that way. I like to breed the heifers, let them calve and then re breed and sell them as a cow calf unit, three in one. Looking for a more mainstream breed that would be better excepted. Speckle park is my other option.

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Re: Black Simmental

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:37 pm

Simmental probably is the 2nd most available semen here in USA. Backbone buys Murrey Grey semen from other country, can't you get it shipped to you? I'm not sure on the requirements. I know there are definitely certain testing of the bull before shipping, but don't know what.
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Re: Black Simmental

Post by Redgully » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:01 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Simmental probably is the 2nd most available semen here in USA. Backbone buys Murrey Grey semen from other country, can't you get it shipped to you? I'm not sure on the requirements. I know there are definitely certain testing of the bull before shipping, but don't know what.


I know with red polls we can't get U.S. semen anymore. Was told there are areas we can but is difficult and expensive to do and just not worth it for a dieing breed. I actually still have some U.S. red poll semen from way back. However it is easy to get U.S. semen of other breeds so i am sure i could get simmental. I think starting with good embryos would be my best way forward, make the best use of the cows i have. I am lead to believe that canadian genetics are relatively simple to bring to Australia. I have been disappointed with the udders of the simmental's i saw at the shows this year so feel i could make my mark in the breed here.

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Re: Black Simmental

Post by wbvs58 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:34 am

Red, I don't think you can go wrong with Simmental. My neighbours have recently (about 3 years) got into Simmental. They have some Speckle Park as well and the idea was to breed the SP to the Simmental for show steers to sell but they have done well with the Simmental at shows and their first bull sold for $10,000, nice bull too, so I think they are going more the Simmental way now. They flushed two cows last year and are doing same again this year, I see the calves beside my driveway and they are super nice. I think there is a lot of interest from commercial people in the black Simmental bulls around here? I know the Simangus steers have done well in some of the big carcase comps on the East Coast.

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Re: Black Simmental

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:47 am

There you go. A farm with embryos. Maybe willing to sell some.
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Re: Black Simmental

Post by cbcr » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:09 am

Redgully wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Simmental probably is the 2nd most available semen here in USA. Backbone buys Murrey Grey semen from other country, can't you get it shipped to you? I'm not sure on the requirements. I know there are definitely certain testing of the bull before shipping, but don't know what.


I know with red polls we can't get U.S. semen anymore. Was told there are areas we can but is difficult and expensive to do and just not worth it for a dieing breed. I actually still have some U.S. red poll semen from way back. However it is easy to get U.S. semen of other breeds so i am sure i could get simmental. I think starting with good embryos would be my best way forward, make the best use of the cows i have. I am lead to believe that canadian genetics are relatively simple to bring to Australia. I have been disappointed with the udders of the simmental's i saw at the shows this year so feel i could make my mark in the breed here.


The only thing that can be preventing Red Poll semen from being shipped to Australia is the collection facility where the semen was collected. For export a bull has to be collected in a CSS approved facility and they to go thru much more testing and are quarantined during testing. Once they pass all of the test they are housed in a separate area that is only for CSS collection away from other bulls that are in for regular collection. Semen that is collected for export also has the CSS logo on it.

Bull studs used to have bulls of several different breeds, but they no longer do. Now they only carry breeds that are profitable.

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Re: Black Simmental

Post by Redgully » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:27 am

That sounds about right. So the reason it would not be worth while is the cost vs the amount of straws that would be used. For instance you would want to import 500 straws and sell at least 300 to make it feasable. With a red poll you'd be lucky to sell 30! I was talking to a lady who exported red poll semen from one of her bulls and sold 2500 straws. Last time red poll semen was imported a few breeders went in together and shared the cost, and they were very disappointed with the progeny i don't think they will be rushing to do it again.

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Re: Black Simmental

Post by Redgully » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:28 am

wbvs58 wrote:Red, I don't think you can go wrong with Simmental. My neighbours have recently (about 3 years) got into Simmental. They have some Speckle Park as well and the idea was to breed the SP to the Simmental for show steers to sell but they have done well with the Simmental at shows and their first bull sold for $10,000, nice bull too, so I think they are going more the Simmental way now. They flushed two cows last year and are doing same again this year, I see the calves beside my driveway and they are super nice. I think there is a lot of interest from commercial people in the black Simmental bulls around here? I know the Simangus steers have done well in some of the big carcase comps on the East Coast.

Ken


Nearly have me convinced!

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Re: Black Simmental

Post by Redgully » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:30 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:There you go. A farm with embryos. Maybe willing to sell some.


If i decide to change paths i will be asking!

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